Are you choosing not to use managed code for any new applications for Win32? Why? Are there resources you need that aren't available from the CLR?
(Note "New" - not enhancements to existing codebases.)
One significant reason is ease of deployment. I can build a Win32 application (using MFC or WTL libraries), and with static linking there are no dependencies on external libraries (yes, I know that static linking is not the recommended approach).
Users can install and run this application without having to install anything else first: no framework library required, and no DLL hell. For comparison, read these posts from the author of Paint.Net to see how painful it can be for a user to install a .Net application.
I guess my last reason to write Win32 is portability. C++ compiles on all platforms, simply and without crazy dependencies. So for portable code, I still end up needing to access Win32 for the GUI.
I'm not bypassing .NET to do Win32 programming. I am bypassing both of them to do Java programming since I want my applications to run on as many platforms as possible. Windows may control a majority of the market but I don't see any reason to cut out even small possibilities for profit, especially since I can write Java code much faster than C++ or C# (that's based on my ability, not a reflection of the languages themselves).
Neither .NET not Win32 give me that cross-platform ability at the moment. They may eventually, with Mono, but I still consider that less-than-production-ready and there's still a question over its future in my mind.
At my workplace there are some old-timers who prefer using MFC because that's what they are familiar with. A few days ago we were to create a simple app and, naturally, they wanted to whip it out in MFC. Only that "whipping out" would have taken about a week and we needed the app in a day. I can't really blame them - old habits die hard. Eventually we went with C# and let the MFC-ers fiddle with the GUI design (which they much appreciated).
Yes and no. I use C++/CLI if I need to do any Win32/COM stuff. C++/CLI is wonderful. Our UIs are entirely .NET, but occasionally we do have need to use straight C++.
Related
Soon I will be coding the file patcher for my application (check if the files are up-to-date and download newest if not) so its not much to code.
The problem is that I don't want the application users to be forced to use additional libraries like .NET (even though I like to code in vb.net or C#). I keep in mind that the .NET framework is installing together with the Windows but still there are plenty people who somehow doesn't have this framework installed, and thats why I'm looking for the programming language that wont require an additional libraries to run the application.
I haven't got much knowledge about programming in C++/Java but I have some experience with the AutoIT, vb.net, C#.
So the question is, what programming language will be the best for this purpose?
This answer is for "what language is available on any version of Windows without additional requirements". There are many other options for "what I can use to create application that can be xcopy deployed on any version of Windows".
JavaScript is probably your best bet - it is supported on most recent versions of Windows (according to Wikipedia article - Windows Script Host JavaScript available for scripting starting with Windows 98). Allows basic operation with files and HTTP communication - maybe enough for simple patching application.
Next would be native Win32 application, but lack of C++ experience will make it hard.
Freepascal, D and Go — to name a few — are much easier to program than C++ and could be told to produce statically-compiled binaries (not dependent on anything but certain system DLLs).
I, personally, would use the latter as it has all the necessary tools (including HTTP and binary I/O) in its standard library and is super-easy to get started with.
I have a few years of experience writing Unix command line tools (no GUI experience) in python, C and C++, and only recently crossed into the GUI world (Cocoa and IOS only). I've learned quite a bit of objective-C and am getting to understand how cocoa MVC works. However, one of the apps I am developing needs a Windows version and I was wondering what a good place to start would be given that I have absolutely no Windows development experience.
I was thinking about using Visual C++ 2010 Express as my development platform (because it's free and because I don't need to learn C++). My application is relatively simple, it will have only two windows and spend most of the time running in the background. It will however need to communicate with the OS (load dll's etc) and an online server (HTTP methods) and I'm not sure whether Visual C++ Express edition gives me access to the required API's. Would a Windows Forms application suffice? Am I going about this the wrong way? Do I need to learn C#? Any advice will be appreciated.
If you are already happy with proper c++, visual Studio C++ express should suit you fine. Given that you are not making a complicated GUI, you don't even need to dip into the managed code - C++ express allows you to create proper c++ console and GUI apps. You also don't need to install the platform SDK - it is part of VS C++ express.
Not being managed C++, you will be able to share source files between your various projects. managed c++, despite the c++ in the name, really is a different enough language that it will be annoying to work with if you simultaneously have to deal with iso C++.
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Note: The native windows API is a C api, not a C++ framework. So it does not provide a rich set of classes in a coherent framework to deal with. On the other hand, while, large, it is actually quite simple to work with.
Also: Given that you are already familiar with Mac development, there is a LGPL (iirc) package called CFLite that builds on windows and that implements the C api that underlays the Objective-C Cocoa API.
If you use its abstratcions you can share a greater part of code between windows and Mac (and other platforms).
Other C++ IDE's you might want to consider:
Code::Blocks
QT Creator
both of which can be configured to use the MINGW port of GCC to windows.
you'll be better off with c++ than c# if you need more "low-level" stuff. Loading dlls (that is, libs) is simple (pragma comment lib...), as is pure HTTP transfer and communication.
So, VC++ with windows form will suffice, and it is "very c++".
You have access to all global APIs, and loading specific apis like http requires only two lines: one to include wininet header, and other lib (libs are actually "references" to dlls).
If you go the C++ Express way then you need to install Windows SDK separately, and set it up for Visual Studio to use it. And you can't use MFC.
I would however, suggest C#, because it feels like putting little toy bricks together. Easier to debug and maintain. Problem with C# is that it has so many library functions that you can not possibly know if what you want is already made to a function. But that's why we are here :-) If you feel that something you want to do should already exist then ask a question about it. One notable feature that C# lacks is zip archives (it has something similar, but not quite). For zips you can use public libraries, like SharpZipLib or DotNetZip.
If I were you, I wouldn't jump into a whole new API so quickly. Have you considered using Python on Windows? Most of the Python packages I've seen are also available for Windows, so you'll feel at home. And if you need some GUI, you can opt for wxPython, pyGTK or something similar.
For Windows specific things, you can always use ctypes. Especially if they're as simple as loading a DLL.
have you considered approaching Adobe AIR? it allows you to deploy on Mac, Linux, Windows, iOS, etc. communicating with and launching native processes has been possible since 2.0 and the the latest 2.5 SDK can target Android OS and TVs. with your experience you should be able to pick up ActionScript3 / MXML in no time.
additionally, there are a handful of free IDEs you can use with the Flex and AIR SDKs. or, if you're a student or low-income developer, you can get a free copy of Flash Builder 4 from Adobe: http://www.adobe.com/devnet-archive/flex/free/
edit: i believe deploying AIR applications on iPhone requires Flash Professional CS5, which includes the packager for iPhone options. at the same time, i've read that AIR and other cross-compilers for iOS are painfully slow, so it's perhaps best to develop natively in Objective-C for iOS.
Microsoft recently released tools and documentation for its new Phone 7 platform, which to the dismay of those who have a big C++ codebase (like me) doesn't support native development anymore. Although I've found speculation about this decision being reversed, I doubt it. So I was thinking how viable would be to make this codebase available to Phone 7 by adapting it to compile under C++/CLI. Of course the user interface parts couldn't be ported, but I'm not sure about the rest. Anyone had a similar experience? I'm not talking about code that does heavy low-level stuff - but there's a quite frequent use of templates and smart pointers.
c++/cli can theoretically be used with WPF/Silverlight using the trick of replacing the C# generated from the XAML with a macro definition that can be used inside the main class in a code behind file. I worked out this technique but haven't had the motivation to take it beyond theory - I'm quite happy mixing languages.
As far as using c++/cli in a pure safe mode for your logic code, this may still not be possible but I'd love to hear how someone goes trying it now. Whilst researching it for Silverlight back in 2008 I found this daunting silverlight forum comment:
I just gave Silverlight&C++ it a try by compiling the MSIL from my C++ project into a Silverlight-compatible DLL. The good news: it works, and you can call this code from a Silverlight project. The bad news: The C++ compiler apparently uses MSIL instructions that Silverlight disallows.
So, if you try this, even with the simplest of programs, you'll almost immediately get the exception "Operation could destabilize the runtime." To me, this makes it seem less likely that we'll see Silverlight for C++ soon, as the compiler will need to behave quite a bit differently.
You can generate verifiable managed code in C++/CLI using the /clr:safe option. The problem is that most of your normal c++ code will not compile with that option.
C# is currently the only supported language for WinPhone7.
I fully expect that MS will add support for VB and C++/CLI in the future too, but don't expect to open up the native-code kimono anytime soon.
Native code just has too many issues to overcome, specifically around security, reliability, etc. Managed code is FAR easier to statically verify and FAR easier to control while running.
If you're upset about porting C++ code to C#, just be glad MS didn't force you to have to move to Objective-C ;)
From our own experience, the proces of porting well-written C++ to C# actually takes a lot less effort than one might at first expect. Sure, there's a learning curve, but you have that with any port. We actually got so much benefit from porting our core app and data engines to C# that we re-tooled our entire team to code in C# and port our C# back to C++ where necessary rather than the other way around! So far, we've only ported two modules back to C++ and call our C# code from our native code via interop instead.
Again, remember, WinPhone is a brand new platform using best of breed, highly-productive, next-generation development tools and platforms. It is not your father's WinMo.
If support for C++ is something you find to be crucially important, then make sure MS know - (respectfully and professionally) state your position in the MSDN forums and at developer events near you.
Update1: 2012-12-17:
While native C++ still isn't officially supported for Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8 now supports native C++ code so you can more easily port your existing C++ codebase(s) to Windows Phone 8 (as well as Windows 8 and Windows desktop apps).
While there isn't 100% compatibility between the Windows8/Phone8 platforms and API's right now, I expect the two platforms to become increasingly integrated over the next couple of releases.
This is especially true now that one of the key barriers to closer cooperation between Windows and other groups at Microsoft recently left the company ;)
Update2: 4/15/2014:
As per the recent announcements at //BUILD/ 2014, you can now start building "universal" apps in C++ & XAML, C#/VB & XAML or JavaScript & HTML that will run on Windows 8.1, Windows Phone 8.1 and Xbox One! For more details on building Windows Phone 8.1 Universal Apps, read this article.
The whole development idea is built on Silverlight. I think you can add your managed dll written in C++ without any problem to this Silverlight project, but it could not use native code.
I am planning to install the tools on my machine tonight and will try this out.
It is fine if MS decides to leave the path and create something new, that is MS' decision. So let's face the facts. Silverlight is no success yet. MS lost significant share due to Apple, Android and RIM. Application developers simply have to evaluate the business case for their own applications and decide if they trust in a share gain of Windows 7 phone or not. For the company that I run, we decided not to support any more MS Windows phone 7, not because of this or the other technical reason, but just because that we don't believe in the return of our investment for the port.
We start supporting Apple, Symbian, Andoid and MeeGo in the future if we see a market success of this new platform. All support C/C++ and enable us to reuse our proven application cores. So why worry at all. Personal technology preferences should not be gating. If personal preferences worry, then I would kick MS out for their to me ugly looking UI.
Thomas
It is on the horizon finally!
So a survey sent to windows phone developers about their future
development preferences and XNA isn't mentioned once in the Survey (A
survey sent to windows phone developers - did I mention that)
They do however ask:
How would you prefer to use C++ in your mobile apps/games?
Develop apps/games that are C++ from top to bottom (UI, business logic, and platform
APIs)
Use C++ for business logic and then write platform abstraction layer
Use C++ for business logic use 3rd party runtime engines
I don’t want to use C++
I need to develop a simple Windows application with 6 or 7 forms. Its main purpose is to manage files and launch a external program.
These are my wishes, in descending importance order
Free
Be Visual, I mean, the possibility to paint forms and object in the screen.
Possibility to carry it in a USB pen-drive.
I need a light/small size language, not a very complex one. My program is going to have very few forms and its functionality is simple.
Is there any language that meet this wishes? If not, is there any commercial one?
I would use Visual C# Express if I were you.
As others have suggested, C# isn't a bad choice.
Personally I'd use wxPython. If you want a GUI to help you lay out the forms, wxDesigner is very good.
Take a look at Visual Basic Express. IMNTBHO, the learning curve for VB.Net is shallower than the C# equivalent.
Failing that (as much as it pains me to say this) take a look at MS-Access (and a runtime install for carrying it around with you). It's not free, but it's also not terribly expensive. The learning curve is even shallower than VB.Net.
You mentioned wanting your program to be portable on a USB drive, so the previous answers suggesting C# and VB.Net are good as long as all of the machines you'll be using your program on have the .Net framework installed.
If you need to run your program on systems without .Net, you'll need to look at programming environments that can either make a native .exe or can wrap scripts in an executable. Which of those is right depends on your needs and programming experience, but I'd take a look at Lazarus/Free Pascal, C++, or Python (with py2exe).
Visual Studio Express editions seems good for your requirement.
Check: http://www.microsoft.com/Express/
Another vote for Lazarus/Free Pascal. It works from stick, and generates (on Windows 32/64/CE) standalone binaries, and you have full access to the windows api and other windwos specific gadgets (COM)
I'd recommend Turbo Explorer. It's a free RAD IDE that'll generate native win32 apps in C++ or Delphi without the need for a managed framework like .NET.
It couldn't be simpler to use. Just drag and drop your components on your form, compile, and run.
I'd ordinarily push for C# or something on the .NET framework but the stipulation of running on a flash disk means you need something that compiles natively. In addition to Lazarus/FreePascal mentioned above you might also want to investigate CodeGear Delphi
I want to write a front-end to an application written in C/C++.
I use Solaris 10 and plan to port the application to some other architectures (Windows first).
I'd recommend taking a look at wxWidgets to provide some cross platform UI widgets that will work on Solaris and Windows.
Qt 4 is the best tool for this job. If you want to work with other languages, it also has bindings for Java and Python
On a Mac, this would be easy. The Cocoa API is great when programming in Objective C (which compiles fine with C/C++ files).
Otherwise the situation is a bit more grim. As for Rapid prototype, you might want to check the CodeGear (Borland/C++ Builder) tools. I think their VCL library is cross-platform.
Otherwise, you could interface with a scripting language like Ruby and use fantastic front end libraries like Shoes. Python also interfaces with wxWidgets to make writing cross-platform front ends easy. Keep in mind that this all requires taking time to make sure your C/C++ code can talk to the scripting language. This is not trivial, and the amount of effort required depends upon the style of your code base. (Oh my God.)
Lastly, you could just use wxWidgets itself. This might be your best bet since it requires no additional overhead than coding the UI itself. That said, C++ is not the greatest language for designing UIs.
And super lastly, consider writing a code generator that converts from say Shoes to whatever wxWidgets code is needed to generate the same Shoes app. That way you can do easier UI design but still get C++ code in the end. Likewise, you could code gen off of the Python/wxWidgets code. Then sell such a code generator. :-)
GTK-- and Glade.
Thats' the C++ bindings on GTK
GTK will work on windows ( just look at GIMP )
Works everywhere, no QT license to mess with your millions-making.
I use wxWidgets myself. It makes good use of the C++ language features and uses smart pointers, so object and memory management is not that hard. In fact, it feels like writing in a scripting language.
Coupled with a dialog editor/code generator like wxFormBuilder or wxDesigner, (links to screenshots) it becomes a good toolkit for rapid development.
Have a look at FLTK which supports X11 and Windows.
Ultimate++ is a cross platform rapid application development framework for C++. It is aimed specifically at rapid development. The Ultimate++ website provides some comparisons to other frameworks mentioned such as Qt and wxWidgets.
I have used ASP.NET Web Forms to make UI front-end to collection of command line application written in legacy language, RESTful-ish web service, and bash scripts.
Once it works on Firefox, it should work at least on Firefox on other architecture. If you haven't played around with it, you should give ASP.NET a try (ASP.NET MVC seems to be the current trend). Not quite the same as RAD, but it does give you visual design of forms etc.