I'm a C programmer with lots of server code experience (AIX, HPUX, some Linux) I need to write a GUI program for Windows (2000, XP, Vista, 7) which requires CAD-like drawing functions and lots of data entry forms (it's a specialised engineering app). I've written some Win32 code many years ago using Gupta SQLwindows (now Centura Builder). The bosses have decreed that it "must be" compiled code. My perception is that C+SDK could do the job but with considerable effort and that C# + Windows Forms would be more capable, but I'm a bit concerned about the .Net framework requirement.
Based upon your experiences, What would you suggest?
If .Net, which version? 2.0, 3.0, 3.5 ??
I'm not familiar with Centura Builder, so I am not sure at what level of abstraction your prior Windows programming experience is. If you choose the native code route using C/C++ and Win32, be sure to buy a copy of Programming Windows by Charles Petzold. Reading the first few chapters of this book can help you decide if you want to go the native code route as well.
If you choose the .NET Framework and C#, and if you do not need the version 3.5-specific features (such as LINQ for database access), I recommend choosing version 3.0. It is a built-in component on Windows Vista, so you don't have to package the runtime with your program installer unless you have to support Windows XP (which you probably do, so never mind :). With version 3.0, you get Windows Presentation Foundation (to use instead of or along with Windows Forms), which gives you a lot of graphical capability without a lot of effort. I'm not knowledgeable about CAD, so I don't know if WPF would provide the drawing functions that you need, but it may provide a great platform upon which you can write your own drawing routines.
EDIT: I missed your Windows version requirements on first reading, particularly the Windows 2000 requirement. I guess you'd have to go with .NET Framework version 2.0 and Windows Forms. I have to ask, though: Wouldn't it be cost-effective to improve your engineers' productivity by upgrading their eight-year-old machines to something newer and faster and therefore get rid of your Windows 2000 support requirement?
If you're going the .NET route, you will have to use .NET 2.0 because .NET 3.0 and above is only supported for Windows XP and above (Vista, 7, 2003, 2008).
I personally wouldn't sweat the .NET framework requirement. It's a one time install on each machine, that can be streamlined through Windows updates if needed.
If you don't want .NET, Qt + C++ is definitely the way to go; it certainly beats C and Win32. .NET still allows much faster development than even Qt though. Qt has the advantage of being fast and easy to deploy (no .NET requirement), and makes portability much easier (if you want to port to Linux or Mac).
If you must use native code then I would strongly suggest RAD Studio from Codegear / Embarcadero, it's a studio product that ships with Delphi (the object oriented language that evolved from Turbo Pascal) and C++ Builder, if you are already familiar with C/C++ then it's going to be very simple for you to pick it up. The Visual Component Library that is shared by both languages is extendable, powerful and RAD.
If you are able to use Managed code, then C# with Winforms is easy to use, WPF may be a better UI choice long term, but it has a steeper learning curve.
Depending on the complexity requirements of the CAD-like drawing, I'd go with C# + Windows Forms, or even more preferrably, C# + WPF.
WPF would make the drawing much, much cleaner than trying to do it in GDI. This is especially true if you're going to do some 3D "drawing", as you can do a lot of (simple) 3D objects directly in WPF. C# will make your GUI programming much more productive than trying to do it in C/C++ with the windows API directly (or even MFC).
Personally, the .NET requirement is minimal in my opinion, but that's really up to the powers that be in your organization...
If it must be compiled code than I would recommend WTL of MFC but it would be much more faster (in terms of develeopment cost) to use C# + WinForms or WPF.
You can do everything with C or C++ / Win32 api
(Win32 samples for CAD-like drawing are in MSDN..)
Related
As SO returns "4,476 search results for posts containing "win32 gui applications""... I'll have to ask a question that has probably been asked before but is lost in the midst of all those questions.
Currently, what are the options to write GUI applications for Win32, that have a big-enough following so that the environment offers enough and well-supported third-party tools?
I could come up with:
C++
Delphi, and possibly
RealBasic (although the fact that it's originally a Macintosh tool could result in small but noticeable issues in look 'n feel).
Besides their relative lack of well-supported third-party tools, solutions like Python + wxWidgets, or [Power|Pure|Free]Basic aren't good options: The former has too many 1.0 widgets (couldn't find a business-grade grid, for instance), and the latter are procedural languages so requires writing apps like Petzold's book with the lower productivity it entails.
Are there other solutions available?
Thank you.
Edit: Sorry for not having been precise enough: Big tools like .Net and Java are not options. I'm looking for tools that can either build a whole EXE statically (eg. Delphi) or provide a light enough runtime (VBClassic).
If you are new to programming I would suggest C# as well if you are only looking to make this app for the Windows Platform however with tools like Mono it can be ported to OS X and Linux Platforms.
Windows has their own IDE just for this called Visual Studio Express C#
Visual Studio's C#
As well as a version for C++ if you are wanting to say in that programming language.
The Mono project allows you to use C# in Linux and Mac as well as port the apps to iOS and Android
http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
You Can use C++ or You can even use the .net framework to develop your windows applications. .Net framework have lots of opensource contributed modules and paid modules and well as number of resources all over the internet to speed up the development compare to other options you have mentioned.
If you are going for a windows 32 gui application, I would prefer to go with .net framework, C++.
Java Swings also another best options which is platform independent as well.
You can use Lazarus as a free alternative to Delphi. Potentially you will have a very high possibility to check its "write once, compile anywhere" motto if you later decide to port your Win32 application to Linux or MacOS. In ideal case it will just work, but in reality you would probably need some conditional defines sections.
Almost all Windows applications with GUI (WinForms or Native) use GDIPlus.
But this technology is quite old, and it shows many limitations.
Alternatives are WPF, or Silverlight, Flash? But Developer Tools like Visual Studio and Delphi still use GDIPlus as reference.
When will this change? ANd moreover: will there be a portability? Like the Delphi VCL will in future be ported to a new technology maintaining backwards compatibility? (for ex TButton is GDI, in future it can be something else).
UPDATE: Maybe my question can be stated as "will future OS render GUI Widgets without GDI+ but using newer technology, a kind of builtin SIlverlight/Flash?"
For native programs, WPF has already replaced GDI+ in my view, but since GDI+ and WinForms have been in play for a long time, it will take a long time to get the majority of developers to go over to this new technology, even if it has a lot of great features and possibilities that GDI+ does not even come close to.
Visual Studio still have support for WinForms/GDI+ of course, but since Visual Studio 2008 built in support for WPF have been there, and is working just fine.
Silverlight and Flash will never be a mainstream replacement for a native application.
We're a C++ & .NET house, and we use WTL for developing GUI apps for native projects. We don't use GDIplus though, we stick with regular GDI calls.
It is a sticking point, and it's extremely difficult to
Write GUI software using WTL/GDI
Find developers who can do WTL/GDI
Train developers to do WTL/GDI
We're currently evaluating Qt as a replacement for our GUI coding, but at £3k per developer seat, it's an expensive option.
Microsoft recently released tools and documentation for its new Phone 7 platform, which to the dismay of those who have a big C++ codebase (like me) doesn't support native development anymore. Although I've found speculation about this decision being reversed, I doubt it. So I was thinking how viable would be to make this codebase available to Phone 7 by adapting it to compile under C++/CLI. Of course the user interface parts couldn't be ported, but I'm not sure about the rest. Anyone had a similar experience? I'm not talking about code that does heavy low-level stuff - but there's a quite frequent use of templates and smart pointers.
c++/cli can theoretically be used with WPF/Silverlight using the trick of replacing the C# generated from the XAML with a macro definition that can be used inside the main class in a code behind file. I worked out this technique but haven't had the motivation to take it beyond theory - I'm quite happy mixing languages.
As far as using c++/cli in a pure safe mode for your logic code, this may still not be possible but I'd love to hear how someone goes trying it now. Whilst researching it for Silverlight back in 2008 I found this daunting silverlight forum comment:
I just gave Silverlight&C++ it a try by compiling the MSIL from my C++ project into a Silverlight-compatible DLL. The good news: it works, and you can call this code from a Silverlight project. The bad news: The C++ compiler apparently uses MSIL instructions that Silverlight disallows.
So, if you try this, even with the simplest of programs, you'll almost immediately get the exception "Operation could destabilize the runtime." To me, this makes it seem less likely that we'll see Silverlight for C++ soon, as the compiler will need to behave quite a bit differently.
You can generate verifiable managed code in C++/CLI using the /clr:safe option. The problem is that most of your normal c++ code will not compile with that option.
C# is currently the only supported language for WinPhone7.
I fully expect that MS will add support for VB and C++/CLI in the future too, but don't expect to open up the native-code kimono anytime soon.
Native code just has too many issues to overcome, specifically around security, reliability, etc. Managed code is FAR easier to statically verify and FAR easier to control while running.
If you're upset about porting C++ code to C#, just be glad MS didn't force you to have to move to Objective-C ;)
From our own experience, the proces of porting well-written C++ to C# actually takes a lot less effort than one might at first expect. Sure, there's a learning curve, but you have that with any port. We actually got so much benefit from porting our core app and data engines to C# that we re-tooled our entire team to code in C# and port our C# back to C++ where necessary rather than the other way around! So far, we've only ported two modules back to C++ and call our C# code from our native code via interop instead.
Again, remember, WinPhone is a brand new platform using best of breed, highly-productive, next-generation development tools and platforms. It is not your father's WinMo.
If support for C++ is something you find to be crucially important, then make sure MS know - (respectfully and professionally) state your position in the MSDN forums and at developer events near you.
Update1: 2012-12-17:
While native C++ still isn't officially supported for Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8 now supports native C++ code so you can more easily port your existing C++ codebase(s) to Windows Phone 8 (as well as Windows 8 and Windows desktop apps).
While there isn't 100% compatibility between the Windows8/Phone8 platforms and API's right now, I expect the two platforms to become increasingly integrated over the next couple of releases.
This is especially true now that one of the key barriers to closer cooperation between Windows and other groups at Microsoft recently left the company ;)
Update2: 4/15/2014:
As per the recent announcements at //BUILD/ 2014, you can now start building "universal" apps in C++ & XAML, C#/VB & XAML or JavaScript & HTML that will run on Windows 8.1, Windows Phone 8.1 and Xbox One! For more details on building Windows Phone 8.1 Universal Apps, read this article.
The whole development idea is built on Silverlight. I think you can add your managed dll written in C++ without any problem to this Silverlight project, but it could not use native code.
I am planning to install the tools on my machine tonight and will try this out.
It is fine if MS decides to leave the path and create something new, that is MS' decision. So let's face the facts. Silverlight is no success yet. MS lost significant share due to Apple, Android and RIM. Application developers simply have to evaluate the business case for their own applications and decide if they trust in a share gain of Windows 7 phone or not. For the company that I run, we decided not to support any more MS Windows phone 7, not because of this or the other technical reason, but just because that we don't believe in the return of our investment for the port.
We start supporting Apple, Symbian, Andoid and MeeGo in the future if we see a market success of this new platform. All support C/C++ and enable us to reuse our proven application cores. So why worry at all. Personal technology preferences should not be gating. If personal preferences worry, then I would kick MS out for their to me ugly looking UI.
Thomas
It is on the horizon finally!
So a survey sent to windows phone developers about their future
development preferences and XNA isn't mentioned once in the Survey (A
survey sent to windows phone developers - did I mention that)
They do however ask:
How would you prefer to use C++ in your mobile apps/games?
Develop apps/games that are C++ from top to bottom (UI, business logic, and platform
APIs)
Use C++ for business logic and then write platform abstraction layer
Use C++ for business logic use 3rd party runtime engines
I don’t want to use C++
For the last few years i have been working as a web developer. So my desktop development skills are a little rusty. I am aware of Adobe AIR, winforms, WFP and silverlight 3.0. I was wandering what other UI frameworks/technologies people are using to implement desktop applications.
Depends on what you want to do. Some of the bigger toolkits for creating GUIs (among others) are QT (http://www.qtsoftware.com/products/), GTK (http://www.gtk.org/) and wxwidgets (http://wxwidgets.org/). Each of them allows you to code in a couple of different languages and use the GUIs on different platforms. There are plenty other toolkits though, which might fit your needs better (eg. more leight-weight ones).
AIR is pretty cool, I've enjoyed writing projects for it as there are a lot less limitations compared to winforms. winforms is quick and easy to use though in Visual Studio.
I think the list you've got is pretty good to start with.
Chrome. Our "desktop" UI is browser-based.
there's lots of different GUI stuff, SWING for java and .net forms are common.
besides what you listed, you'll also hear about Win32 and MFC (both c++), Tk (which is common with scripting languages like perl/python), the hardware languages OpenGl, glu, and glut (cross platform), DirectX (windows), and X Window System (X11) on linux (and Mac) and Cocoa and Carbon on Mac.
There are many others, but these are ones that I've seen used regularly.
WinForms is the default platform used to develop desktop applications using .NET framework (and Visual Studio 2002, 2003, 2005 and 2008). It's really a wrapper around the Win32 API that deals with CreateWindow and managing the messages sent to that window.
WinForms uses GDI/GDI+ technology while WPF (an exciting new platform offering a LOT of potential) utilizes GDI/GDI+ and DirectX (some parts at least, such as bitmap effects, transitions, fading).
Silverlight is a toned down Web version of WPF. Silverlight 3.0 allows developers to create a rich internet experience without the need to run the application inside a browser. Definitely something to keep an eye out for!
In terms of GUI design, I depend heavily on QT right now (py and c++ QT).
I recommend an excellent book: Rapid GUI Design with QT
I haven't tried it yet, but JavaFX sounds pretty cool.
It depends on the langage and the platform you're programming for. For C++, you can use either : Qt and its RAD tool: Qt designer, GTK+ / gtkmm or wxWidgets among others..
I'm a long time Mac user, with a fair bit of programming experience and I wanted to try programming for windows. The thing is I don't know where to start, what should I learn first ? .Net, Win32 ?
[Clarification]: My ultimate goal would be to create a more or less complex application using the latest APIs however I like to know the underpinning of what I'm dealling with.
Start with the Bible, Programming Windows 5th Edition. It is still very relevant.
http://www.charlespetzold.com/pw5/
You'll start doing C with Win32. Once you understand that you can also learn .NET. Though some people may tell you to skip Win32 and go straight to .NET. However, doing Win32, you will understand a great deal about how Windows actually works.
I'd be taking a look at getting a copy of one of the Visual Studio Express Editions and start there. It has all the tools you need to build windows / web applications on windows.
You could start at the win32 level however depending on what exactly you want to do, you may find you're able to do everything you need with .net and visual studio.
Once you're finished with the suggested windows programming bible start reading The Old New Thing, Raymond Chen's blog.
There's a lot of interesting insight about inner workings of windows, why it is the way it is etc.
For rapid application development on windows, .NET seems to be the most efficient solution nowadays. But If you crave that extra ounce of performance out of your applications, I'd recommend giving Programming Windows and Windows via C/C++ a thorough read. Although some of the material is dated, a lot of it is still relevant with windows programming today. If you choose the .NET route some books to take a look at include Illustrated C# 2008, Accelerated C# 2008, and of course our own Jon Skeet's C# in Depth.
.Net is easier.
My ultimate goal would be to create a more or less complex application using the latest APIs
The latest APIs are .Net (Win32 is older).
however I like to know the underpinning of what I'm dealling with.
Win32 underpins .Net (although you might barely see Win32 artefacts when you're programming in the .Net environment ... for example the Mono project more-or-less-successfully ports the .Net API to non-windows).
Read the Petzold and see the Advanced Win32 api newsgroup for all undocumented stuff news://comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32 (source code for all Win32 apis...)
I'd recommend starting to program in .NET (C# or any other .NET language) since that's the most modern general application platform for Microsoft. I personally like the Richter books, CLR via C# and Applied Microsoft .NET Programming. Great starting points even though the 2nd book is a bit old and doesn't contain newer .NET features.
To truly learn the Windows platform, I totally agree with Bobby's suggestion to read Petzold's Programming Windows.