We are looking to migrate our automotive diagnostic application from the PC to a Windows Embedded platform. We have an enormous application logic code base which we will migrate to the .net Compact Framework but we are struggling to decide on the UI framework. At the moment we have three options:
1) Silverlight
2) QT
3) Crank
I have a little experience in WPF so I'm naturally drawn to Silverlight but I have zero experience of the others. Have any of you used them on this platform? Can you give me some pros/cons and maybe some potential gotchas?
Cheers,
Chris.
If you are not tied to .NET and want to have a deployment choice between Windows, Windows Embedded, WinCE, Linux x86/x64 or ARM Embedded Linux you can take a look at:
fpGUI
CodeTyphon
CodeTyphon even includes complete cross platform SCADA package for visualization and communication with many protocols (MODBUS, Siemens, Allen Bradley and other PLCs).
Related
As SO returns "4,476 search results for posts containing "win32 gui applications""... I'll have to ask a question that has probably been asked before but is lost in the midst of all those questions.
Currently, what are the options to write GUI applications for Win32, that have a big-enough following so that the environment offers enough and well-supported third-party tools?
I could come up with:
C++
Delphi, and possibly
RealBasic (although the fact that it's originally a Macintosh tool could result in small but noticeable issues in look 'n feel).
Besides their relative lack of well-supported third-party tools, solutions like Python + wxWidgets, or [Power|Pure|Free]Basic aren't good options: The former has too many 1.0 widgets (couldn't find a business-grade grid, for instance), and the latter are procedural languages so requires writing apps like Petzold's book with the lower productivity it entails.
Are there other solutions available?
Thank you.
Edit: Sorry for not having been precise enough: Big tools like .Net and Java are not options. I'm looking for tools that can either build a whole EXE statically (eg. Delphi) or provide a light enough runtime (VBClassic).
If you are new to programming I would suggest C# as well if you are only looking to make this app for the Windows Platform however with tools like Mono it can be ported to OS X and Linux Platforms.
Windows has their own IDE just for this called Visual Studio Express C#
Visual Studio's C#
As well as a version for C++ if you are wanting to say in that programming language.
The Mono project allows you to use C# in Linux and Mac as well as port the apps to iOS and Android
http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
You Can use C++ or You can even use the .net framework to develop your windows applications. .Net framework have lots of opensource contributed modules and paid modules and well as number of resources all over the internet to speed up the development compare to other options you have mentioned.
If you are going for a windows 32 gui application, I would prefer to go with .net framework, C++.
Java Swings also another best options which is platform independent as well.
You can use Lazarus as a free alternative to Delphi. Potentially you will have a very high possibility to check its "write once, compile anywhere" motto if you later decide to port your Win32 application to Linux or MacOS. In ideal case it will just work, but in reality you would probably need some conditional defines sections.
I am developing a relatively simple .NET class library mainly using basic value and reference types. To save code duplication, I would like to export to 1 DLL which could be used by both Windows PCs and Windows Phone devices? Is this possible? As far as I know, all methods are compatible with the .NET and Compact .NET Framework.
Yes, as long as you stick to the Compact Framework subset, it will work. Check out this MSDN article on that same topic.
Quote:
The techniques and principles
discussed in this article can be
utilized when writing cross-device
code—applications that target Windows
devices with differing form factors
(different screen sizes, orientations,
touch screens and so on).
Microsoft recently released tools and documentation for its new Phone 7 platform, which to the dismay of those who have a big C++ codebase (like me) doesn't support native development anymore. Although I've found speculation about this decision being reversed, I doubt it. So I was thinking how viable would be to make this codebase available to Phone 7 by adapting it to compile under C++/CLI. Of course the user interface parts couldn't be ported, but I'm not sure about the rest. Anyone had a similar experience? I'm not talking about code that does heavy low-level stuff - but there's a quite frequent use of templates and smart pointers.
c++/cli can theoretically be used with WPF/Silverlight using the trick of replacing the C# generated from the XAML with a macro definition that can be used inside the main class in a code behind file. I worked out this technique but haven't had the motivation to take it beyond theory - I'm quite happy mixing languages.
As far as using c++/cli in a pure safe mode for your logic code, this may still not be possible but I'd love to hear how someone goes trying it now. Whilst researching it for Silverlight back in 2008 I found this daunting silverlight forum comment:
I just gave Silverlight&C++ it a try by compiling the MSIL from my C++ project into a Silverlight-compatible DLL. The good news: it works, and you can call this code from a Silverlight project. The bad news: The C++ compiler apparently uses MSIL instructions that Silverlight disallows.
So, if you try this, even with the simplest of programs, you'll almost immediately get the exception "Operation could destabilize the runtime." To me, this makes it seem less likely that we'll see Silverlight for C++ soon, as the compiler will need to behave quite a bit differently.
You can generate verifiable managed code in C++/CLI using the /clr:safe option. The problem is that most of your normal c++ code will not compile with that option.
C# is currently the only supported language for WinPhone7.
I fully expect that MS will add support for VB and C++/CLI in the future too, but don't expect to open up the native-code kimono anytime soon.
Native code just has too many issues to overcome, specifically around security, reliability, etc. Managed code is FAR easier to statically verify and FAR easier to control while running.
If you're upset about porting C++ code to C#, just be glad MS didn't force you to have to move to Objective-C ;)
From our own experience, the proces of porting well-written C++ to C# actually takes a lot less effort than one might at first expect. Sure, there's a learning curve, but you have that with any port. We actually got so much benefit from porting our core app and data engines to C# that we re-tooled our entire team to code in C# and port our C# back to C++ where necessary rather than the other way around! So far, we've only ported two modules back to C++ and call our C# code from our native code via interop instead.
Again, remember, WinPhone is a brand new platform using best of breed, highly-productive, next-generation development tools and platforms. It is not your father's WinMo.
If support for C++ is something you find to be crucially important, then make sure MS know - (respectfully and professionally) state your position in the MSDN forums and at developer events near you.
Update1: 2012-12-17:
While native C++ still isn't officially supported for Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8 now supports native C++ code so you can more easily port your existing C++ codebase(s) to Windows Phone 8 (as well as Windows 8 and Windows desktop apps).
While there isn't 100% compatibility between the Windows8/Phone8 platforms and API's right now, I expect the two platforms to become increasingly integrated over the next couple of releases.
This is especially true now that one of the key barriers to closer cooperation between Windows and other groups at Microsoft recently left the company ;)
Update2: 4/15/2014:
As per the recent announcements at //BUILD/ 2014, you can now start building "universal" apps in C++ & XAML, C#/VB & XAML or JavaScript & HTML that will run on Windows 8.1, Windows Phone 8.1 and Xbox One! For more details on building Windows Phone 8.1 Universal Apps, read this article.
The whole development idea is built on Silverlight. I think you can add your managed dll written in C++ without any problem to this Silverlight project, but it could not use native code.
I am planning to install the tools on my machine tonight and will try this out.
It is fine if MS decides to leave the path and create something new, that is MS' decision. So let's face the facts. Silverlight is no success yet. MS lost significant share due to Apple, Android and RIM. Application developers simply have to evaluate the business case for their own applications and decide if they trust in a share gain of Windows 7 phone or not. For the company that I run, we decided not to support any more MS Windows phone 7, not because of this or the other technical reason, but just because that we don't believe in the return of our investment for the port.
We start supporting Apple, Symbian, Andoid and MeeGo in the future if we see a market success of this new platform. All support C/C++ and enable us to reuse our proven application cores. So why worry at all. Personal technology preferences should not be gating. If personal preferences worry, then I would kick MS out for their to me ugly looking UI.
Thomas
It is on the horizon finally!
So a survey sent to windows phone developers about their future
development preferences and XNA isn't mentioned once in the Survey (A
survey sent to windows phone developers - did I mention that)
They do however ask:
How would you prefer to use C++ in your mobile apps/games?
Develop apps/games that are C++ from top to bottom (UI, business logic, and platform
APIs)
Use C++ for business logic and then write platform abstraction layer
Use C++ for business logic use 3rd party runtime engines
I don’t want to use C++
I'm a C programmer with lots of server code experience (AIX, HPUX, some Linux) I need to write a GUI program for Windows (2000, XP, Vista, 7) which requires CAD-like drawing functions and lots of data entry forms (it's a specialised engineering app). I've written some Win32 code many years ago using Gupta SQLwindows (now Centura Builder). The bosses have decreed that it "must be" compiled code. My perception is that C+SDK could do the job but with considerable effort and that C# + Windows Forms would be more capable, but I'm a bit concerned about the .Net framework requirement.
Based upon your experiences, What would you suggest?
If .Net, which version? 2.0, 3.0, 3.5 ??
I'm not familiar with Centura Builder, so I am not sure at what level of abstraction your prior Windows programming experience is. If you choose the native code route using C/C++ and Win32, be sure to buy a copy of Programming Windows by Charles Petzold. Reading the first few chapters of this book can help you decide if you want to go the native code route as well.
If you choose the .NET Framework and C#, and if you do not need the version 3.5-specific features (such as LINQ for database access), I recommend choosing version 3.0. It is a built-in component on Windows Vista, so you don't have to package the runtime with your program installer unless you have to support Windows XP (which you probably do, so never mind :). With version 3.0, you get Windows Presentation Foundation (to use instead of or along with Windows Forms), which gives you a lot of graphical capability without a lot of effort. I'm not knowledgeable about CAD, so I don't know if WPF would provide the drawing functions that you need, but it may provide a great platform upon which you can write your own drawing routines.
EDIT: I missed your Windows version requirements on first reading, particularly the Windows 2000 requirement. I guess you'd have to go with .NET Framework version 2.0 and Windows Forms. I have to ask, though: Wouldn't it be cost-effective to improve your engineers' productivity by upgrading their eight-year-old machines to something newer and faster and therefore get rid of your Windows 2000 support requirement?
If you're going the .NET route, you will have to use .NET 2.0 because .NET 3.0 and above is only supported for Windows XP and above (Vista, 7, 2003, 2008).
I personally wouldn't sweat the .NET framework requirement. It's a one time install on each machine, that can be streamlined through Windows updates if needed.
If you don't want .NET, Qt + C++ is definitely the way to go; it certainly beats C and Win32. .NET still allows much faster development than even Qt though. Qt has the advantage of being fast and easy to deploy (no .NET requirement), and makes portability much easier (if you want to port to Linux or Mac).
If you must use native code then I would strongly suggest RAD Studio from Codegear / Embarcadero, it's a studio product that ships with Delphi (the object oriented language that evolved from Turbo Pascal) and C++ Builder, if you are already familiar with C/C++ then it's going to be very simple for you to pick it up. The Visual Component Library that is shared by both languages is extendable, powerful and RAD.
If you are able to use Managed code, then C# with Winforms is easy to use, WPF may be a better UI choice long term, but it has a steeper learning curve.
Depending on the complexity requirements of the CAD-like drawing, I'd go with C# + Windows Forms, or even more preferrably, C# + WPF.
WPF would make the drawing much, much cleaner than trying to do it in GDI. This is especially true if you're going to do some 3D "drawing", as you can do a lot of (simple) 3D objects directly in WPF. C# will make your GUI programming much more productive than trying to do it in C/C++ with the windows API directly (or even MFC).
Personally, the .NET requirement is minimal in my opinion, but that's really up to the powers that be in your organization...
If it must be compiled code than I would recommend WTL of MFC but it would be much more faster (in terms of develeopment cost) to use C# + WinForms or WPF.
You can do everything with C or C++ / Win32 api
(Win32 samples for CAD-like drawing are in MSDN..)
Some of the requirements (restrictions) for such a ui framework/toolkit are:
No single vendor lock down
Ability for real time data visualization
Good initial widgets
Good dash boarding capabilities
cross platform
Good development/debug environment
No flash
It's a pity you can't/won't use Flash. Else I could really recommend Adobe AIR. It has a good editor (Flex Builder built on Eclipse), a good component framework with many out of the box components, charting components set, ability to communicate with many different protocols (and you could write your own protocol implementation), cross platform, runs in the AIR runtime and not in the browser, file IO, ...
I wouldn't pass over Flex/Air (Flash) without a closer consideration but here are a few others I have come across:
wxWidgets
GTK+
Qt
There is also a slashdot post with links to some tookits I haven't heard of. I'll add their recommendations here:
GLUI, an OpenGL-based GUI
Whisper, a Mac/Windows application framework
WxWindows, a framework which supports Windows 3.1/95/98/NT, and Unix with GTK/Motif/Lesstif, and MacOS
YAAF, Yet Another Application Framework, offering suport for Macintosh OS, Windows 95 and Windows NT, and X Windows
CPLAT, a framework for developing MacOS and Windows (Linux soon) applications
Ardi's Carbonless Copies technology, which is a portable rewrite of much of the MacOS API
For general information:
GUI Toolkit/Framework Page
PIGUI FAQ Page
C++ User's Journal PIGUI Page
I might suggest Mozilla XUL, but it has some drawbacks:
No really good development / debug environment (although there are tools and debuggers; they are variable)
You are locked into a vendor, but it is Mozilla.
It is very easy to use though and allows you to reuse your web Javascript skills for a rich-client app.
There's also Java of course. It satifies all your requirements AFAICS.
Plenty of custom charting controls, which are things you will struggle to find for GTK/WxWindows/$other_small_userbase_framework.
If you dont like Swing(its come a long way - Metal is dead, long live SystemDefault L&F!), there are options like SWT or even QT bindings for java(QTJambi).
For C or C++ go QT, its APIs are really nice.
For RCAs check out Eclipse RCP. For RIAs, you might be interested in OpenLaszlo. It's a rich internet platform that can compile both to Flash and DHTML.
http://www.gnustep.org/
"GNUstep is a cross-platform, object-oriented framework for desktop application development. Based on the OpenStep specification originally created by NeXT (now Apple), GNUstep enables developers to rapidly build sophisticated software by employing a large library of reusable software components."
Portable to: Windows, BSD-based systems, Linux-based systems, HP/UX, , Solaris, Sparc, GNUstep Solaris 10 U2 vmware appliance, OpenSolaris, others.
I recently made a pretty complete list here: http://commadot.com/ria-frameworks/
ExtJS is probably my favorite and we use that at work. I think it satisfies your list. Otherwise, there are a bunch of other possibilities on that page.