I need to port an application (written in XE2) to Mac.
My application is split into a simple UI executable (single-threaded) and an invisible engine (which heavily relies on OmniThreadLibrary 3.02 and Cromis DirectoryWatch)
Both EXEs communicate via Cromis.IPC
This is to say that I mainly have issues with these 3 components (OmniThreadLibrary, Cromis IPC & DirectoryWatch)
My focus right now is the Engine, which has most of the code.
My question is: Is there something similar to OmniThreadLibrary, Cromis DirectoryWatch & Cromis.IPC for Mac? (Whether with lazarus or XE2 with Mac as a target compiler)
The answer will help me a lot in deciding whether I should use Delphi XE2 or Lazarus (an IDE which I'm not familiar at all with) and see what's the best long term approach to offer/support both Windows & Mac with the minimum headaches
I am answering the part of your question dealing with compiler /IDE. I've used Lazarus and I must say that it won't take you too long to get up to speed (except for your exact requirements). Lazarus is getting more and more professional; a number of the developers are professional Delphi / XE2 coders by day. I think since you want to make your application available on Mac, you are going to have some work cut out anyway. But, it you decide to use Lazarus, you can for the most part build applications for Linux, Mac, and Windows without much effort ... most things just build right for each of the platforms from the same mostly unmodified source. Of course, as you say, your code heavily leans on OTL With OTL being a windows only library, I think you are going to have your work cut out for you. (read ... you might have to write an equivalent library yourself, or have someone do it for you) As for Chromis Directory watch, I haven't found anything yet.
I hope this helps a bit. CHEERS
This Lazarus tutorial shows that threading functionality built in. I am unaware of an equivalent library for what you are searching for. CHEERS
Related
Programming languages are platform independent, so why is it that we can't write a program that will run on both a PC and a Mac?
I want to develop a software and I'm on a mac, but I want it to run on a PC also, is it possible to develop such a software without having to require the user to download a special program that will make my program compatible with their computer?
The problem with this is that most software is dependent on the OS to handle some tasks. Yes, most programming languages are compatible with many platforms, but the OS provides a lot of support. When software uses the OS, it is sometimes called making a system call. If you want here is some more information.
Theoretically if you write your program in a 'high level language' it should be portable between two operating systems.
Practically however, the differences start from the very beginning - the API of choice, which works on one and does not on another(Such as, Mac's BSD API is incompatible with Win32 API) and boils down to the very last, which is, executable format, linker and loader. Each operating system has its own quirks.
Then comes the difference between the underlying architecture. Previously Macs ran on PowerPC architecture and Motorola architectures, while PCs used Intel. Since Macs have switched to Intel, there have been attempts at making cross platform executables inside Apple. Most attempts have failed.
There is however a way around your problem. You can use a very high level language such as Python to code and then distribute your python code to your PC friends.(But remember remember, you need a Python interpreter in your PC friends' computers for your program to run). I have successfully ported Python programs from Mac to PC with 0 code changes, and sometimes requiring only 2-4% code changes.
Simple answer: because language per se is not enough to make an application cross-platform. Also the framework it uses must be cross-platform too, frameworks are required for everything: handling data, displaying things, communicate with the hardware, multi threading, etc
This can usually be done:
by choosing a complete solution like Java, which will actually run on both platforms seamlessly and even with the same binary
by using C/C++ and cross platform libraries so that the same program can be compiled for both platforms (keep in mind that you can't distribute the real same binary, you need to compile two in any case)
by writing the logic of your program just using standard libraries and a standard language and then attach whatever you need for a specific platform just to build two different libraries. Of course you will have to wrap as much as you need so that the cross-platform part of your program doesn't know it
Mind that developing cross-platform applications which are not trivial examples like a game (for which there are plenty of cross-platform APIs) without using a complete solution like Java is not an easy task at all. Especially because most of the GUI you can build are strictly platform specific and relies on their own frameworks.
If you want an application to run "anywhere" your best option is a JIT type language which means that it compiles as it runs (Just In Time) for the platform that it's on. Really the language that stands out in my mind is Java (there's others and personally I don't like java). However, it's not quite that simple. For example a Window on a Mac computer has pieces and functions that a Window on a PC doesn't have and vice versa. And other operating systems don't even have windows or anything equivilant yet still run Java like Android or iOS for example or countless Linux Distros. And that's just a very basic example it gets MUCH MUCH harrier. Really the best way to build an application that can be used by anyone on just about any device is going web based.
The lesson is that if it was that simple a lot of people wouldn't have jobs and it never will be that simple, things will always progress and change and not everyone is going to want to do the same thing with their OS as someone else. There's a million ways to skin a cat and there's many more ways to implement something in an OS.
Yes, it is possible. But it is quite tricky. You need to:
Use a cross platform language (this is the easy part, many languages run on different plaftforms)
Avoid using any platform-specific features (usually not too hard, but needs testing)
Ensure you have cross platform libraries for all your dependencies (hard!)
Because of the library issue in particular, there are very few options that work across platforms. Your best options are probably:
A JVM language (like Java, Scala or Clojure) - because the JVM abstracts away from platform specific features, pure Java applications and libraries will run on any platform. Java probably has the best ecosystem of cross platform libraries and tools as a result.
JavaScript - quite a good option if you don't mind running in a browser. There are lots of quirks to deal with, but JavaScript is one of the best cross-platform options because of it's ubiquity.
After a long evaluation period of mainstream toolkits Qt, WxWidget, GTK i came to the conclusion that it does not make sense to religiously equalize the different platform. Now more then ever before.
In the days before Java portability meant, that platform dependent code was located in known places and should be small but not none. No write once, run everywhere marketing.
Is there any GUI tookit - experimental or commerical (even outdated or dead projects) - that is going this way. It would need to give me native widgets of course. I would like to have a look at them before i start my own toolkit
If you think this is a stupid idea tell me why (cause everybody else is doing it differently there may be a reason i don't see)
As someone who zealously believes that GUIs should be drawn with native widgets, I must say I've been very impressed with wxWidgets, although you mention that at the beginning.
As far as I know, wxWidgets uses native widgets whenever possible, and indeed it does also include platform-specific features that are neither possible nor relevant on other platforms. A good example of this is how you can use the native Mac OS X menu, while on other systems it won't do squat. There are other and better examples.
I must mention wxPython in particular, in case you either don't want to or just don't have the time to write a C++ program. wxPython astonished me when I tried it out first, and I even managed to make a stand-alone .exe file from it that worked on a fresh install of Windows 2000 without any updates or particular runtime environments.
If wxWidgets doesn't suit your needs, I wonder what would. :) Hurray for wxWidgets!
AFAIK, wxWidgets uses the platform's native widgets whenever possible.
Have a look at SWT, it tries to use the widgets of the underlying platform as much as possible.
I am working on a new small utility desktop application but I am not really able to choose the GUI framework to use. I have worked on both JAVA,C# and C++, so language is not really a constraint. My criteria are:-
A very well designed architecture, something like QT. It's better if it follows typical C++ design methodologies.
Layout management should be easy, intuitive and not really cumbersome. I hate adjusting pixels on screen.
Its license should be open.
It should look good :)
Mentioned QT seems to comply to all your requirements. QT has "deploy everywhere" attribute, whilst Java needs no deploying at all (it depends on what is use of your utility).
Ad. 2 QT has really convenient GUI designer.
Ad. 3 LGPL. Usually it is enough.
Ad. 4 It is always matter of taste. IMO QT4 looks awesome under linux, but it's windows look'n'feel is correct at best. It's strong point is, that without additional tweaks it almost everywhere looks native.
I've been using Swing, and it works fine. NetBeans (a decent IDE by itself) even supports graphical GUI building.
It's well designed (basically
everything is done with listeners,
functions that are registered for a
certain event). It has bindings, so
you don't have to write code to set
up a value in a text field or read
it out
Layout is not perfect, but
acceptable within NetBeans. It's
WYSIWYG (almost). Look-and-feel can
be changed on the fly.
License is free. Source-code is not
available, I think.
Looks fine on Windows and Linux,
less so on OSX.
You could always try SWT. The advantages of Java with the standard L&F of supported operating systems.
Well designed. Lots of
documentation, and very easy to
develop with. (If you know Swing,
you can pick up SWT in no time.)
I believe layout managers do exist
that support SWT. I'm not positive
about this though, as I typically
don't use layout managers too much.
Uses the Eclipse Public
License. Should meet most of
your requirements.
From Wikipedia on SWT:
SWT is written in Java. To display GUI elements, the SWT implementation accesses the native GUI libraries of the operating system using JNI (Java Native Interface) in a manner that is similar to those programs written using operating system-specific APIs. Programs that call SWT are portable, but the implementation of the toolkit, despite the fact that it is written in Java, is unique for each platform.
Hope that helps you.
I'd suggest wxWidgets if you want to program in C++ or wxPython (the python language binding of wxWidgets if you know or don't mind learning Python.
Architecture is similar to QT I think.
Layout using sizers. Quite easy once you get the hang of it.
Liberal open source license.
Widgets are native on all platforms (Windows, Mac OS X, Linux).
my background: i've been developing web applications using php and javascript for the past ten years. before that, i've developed applications using turbo pascal for DOS. in my opinion application and web application development are two different kinds of development (at least it's what i think when i remember back the old days of DOS application development).
now i am in the need to go back to "normal" application development for various reasons. the application i want to build needs a GUI and it has to run on osx and windows. as mac os user it would be very nice for me to get an application as result, that really feels like an osx application. i don't need any special UI components: an explorer/finder like tree, a datagrid and some form-elements would be enough for my needs.
now the problem is, that i don't know where to start: i would classify me as newbie, because it's that long time since i last developed anything other than a web application. are there any recommendations of programming languages and gui toolkits with a not to steep learning curve? or can you recommend any book i should read for getting into cross-plattform osx/windows app development?
many thanks!
thanks everyone! i think i'll have a look at realbasic!
Edit Nov 2011 - a retraction
Most of what I say below is still true however I have now got serious reservations about recommending REALbasic for anyone trying to release commercial-quality applications. To save me remembering to edit this post later, see if RealSoftware have managed to release a robust version of their IDE using the Cocoa version of their frameworks. If not, be very cautious.
It's with a heavy heart that I write this because I still really like the language and think the framework and IDE are well-done. The problem is apparently one of under-capitalization and possibly a software development culture inside the company that consistently fails to deal with a bug regression problem. Many bugs are fixed each release but there appears to be a huge tax on the developers in the number of introduced bugs. They have a very small team for the complexity of the product, especially considering the newly released Web Edition which is effectively an entirely new platform.
It's still theoretically a great product but take advantage of the trial period, test it thoroughly on each of the platforms you plan to target and decide if you can live with any bugs you find because they may be there for a while.
REALbasic.
The language is a powerful, modern OO language that won't be hard for you to adapt to from your vaguely remembered Pascal or current JavaScript. It has most of the power of C++ without the dangerous bits that make debugging a nightmare. You will also find the IDE simpler and easier to deal with than say Visual Studio.
The IDE makes it very easy to throw together a GUI and have it just work on multiple platforms. The Pro version has one of the best cross-platform debuggers I've used and it is easy to just work (say) on a Mac and develop for Windows and Linux, compiling and testing with one click.
There is also a thriving community including many people at your level of expertise so you won't be mocked for being a newbie.
I am a professional software developer with over 25 years experience and currently mainly working in REALbasic, C++, C#, Objective-C and a bit of Ruby. For apps such as you mention, REALbasic is my tool of choice.
edit: I can't believe someone downvoted this but didn't have the guts to add a comment explaining why. I'd heard about prejudice against REALbasic but this is the first time I've encountered it. In what way was my answer inappropriate for this question?
Just to add to my cred, I've implemented cross-platform frameworks used by systems deployed to tens of thousands of end users - I have the C++ cross-platform experience to applaud someone else doing a good job and the REALbasic frameworks are very nice.
The best cross-platform tool I've dabbled in with a relatively small learning curve...especially if you're familiar with Visual Basic...is REALbasic. With REALbasic Pro you can compile a program to target Win32, Linux, and OS X from the same codebase, as long as you're not using OS-specific calls and features (which you can do with plugins or direct calls). Their support has been pretty responsive to my questions, the personal edition (which compiles to only the single target platform you'd downloaded the IDE for) is free for Linux and inexpensive for other platforms, but really you might want to download and try it out. One IDE, relatively inexpensive, and can compile native applications on OS X, Windows, and Linux...it's less hassle, and for me that's important when you want to get a job done.
I'd advise against C and Qt and would also recommend REALbasic.
With your background in Pascal and probably JavaScript you'll feel much more comfortable with REALbasic. I've done a lot of coding in Pascal and C/C++ - where Pascal guides you to avoid programming mistakes, C lets you step right in, even invites you, and then you'll have a hard time figuring out why it went wrong. Qt is a very abstract framework and requires you to learn a lot before you can get something working, just like with C. When compared to the easyness we used to have with TP back then.
RB is much more like Pascal in this regard. And its IDE is quite modern in regards to supporting your programming, with an easy-to-use GUI designer, straight-forward editor to fill in the gaps for handling UI events, code completion, etc.
Only when you get into huge program sizes, RB loses some of its appeal because it is missing tools to give you a good overview of complex class interactions etc.
Another thing is that Qt is more likely to cause ugly-looking Mac apps than RB would. RB visually guides you to get it all aligned nicely - in Qt you have to work with numbers, offsets, etc. to position your objects (at least it was that way when I used Qt 2 years ago).
I've written quite a few x-platform apps in RB and am pretty happy with the results.
You won't probably write those super-nice looking apps that compete with the best on the open small business market, but if you just want to get some solid code working, with an easy-to-design UI that's acceptable to the average user, give RB a try.
It's not free, though. But its rather small community is on your side - they're eager to help, instead of bashing everyone who's trying to talk sense :)
I'm new here but picked up on this thread through the REALbasic User Group. I think my position was similar to yours. I did website design for my work, using mostly javascript (with a little php, not much). I had a Pascal and BASIC background. I'd dabbled it C but didn't like the level of detail you needed to monitor it. It reminded me too much of assembly (which I still have nightmares about from my high-school/college days).
I was looking for a cross-platform language, with a familiar feel to it, but initially started with VB because it was free. I prefer programming in MacOS however, so I tried REALbasic. I found that REALbasic's UI builder was much easier to use than VB's. I'd echo other comments that the community is the most responsive of any user groups I've been involved with. I've since used REALbasic and my Mac to make several programs that over 100 users use every day at my work (on PCs, mostly XP and 2000). I've received compliments on the polish and ease of use of these programs. You DO have to remember to adjust the 'little' things to make it look right cross platform (ie: default button placement is opposite on PC vs. Mac, button sizes are different on Linux, etc). Many people have donated custom classes that do this stuff for you though.
People seem to assume that a "BASIC" language cannot be powerful enough for their purposes. While it is BASIC at it's core (with For..Next, Do..While, and If..Then commands), it ain't your daddy's BASIC. It's much more OOP than anything else I've used, based upon an event-driven structure, which for me was easy to pick up. They have a free trial, so grab a demo and run through the tutorial. If you get stuck, ask for questions on the NUG or Forums at the website and you'll likely get an answer quickly.
You may be interested in the following questions and answers:
Cross-platform development - Go with a cross-platform UI toolkit or native on multiple platforms?
Easiest cross platform widget toolkit?
Should I use a cross-platform GUI-toolkit or rely on the native ones?
Using a Mac for cross platform development?
and many others suggested in the Related sidebar of these questions.
Some answers suggest gtk (which is used by cross-platform gimp). Others suggest native approaches. Some suggest that a Mac is a nice platform for developing for Mac OS X, Windows, Unix and Linux.
I wholeheartedly recommend RealBasic too. I have been using RB for about 8 years now and find it to be a perfect tool for my Companies development needs, from small apps, to large multi-user systems.
It is perfect for beginners and those that are getting back into programming, and also for professional developers.
Highly recommended.
As Andy Dent and others here have indicated, for a newbie to create cross-platform applications it is hard to beat REALbasic (now Xojo).
Sure, there are plenty of other cross platform solutions such as QT (C++), Java, .NET (to some extent) and wxWidgets but they are not something a beginner would be able to use effectively.
I have many years of professional development experience in a wide variety of languages and technologies and I prefer to use REALbasic most of the time.
With that said, you might also consider Runtime Revolution or Adobe Air.
Whilst it might seem tempting to use a language thats platform independent and allow you to write the app once and use anywhere, you will undoubtably be sacrificing something on each, particularly in the UI and user experience.
If you can your best creating something using a native API that lets you take full advantage of the features of the OS to make your application shine.
I would definitely go for C++ and Qt, the code you write once will compile and run without problems on Windows, Mac and Linux. The new IDE that comes with Qt - Qt Creator is brilliant, works and looks the same on Windows, Mac and Linux, you don't need to anything else to start writing cross-platform applications.
I tried WxWidgets but didn't find good IDE, the best one was Code Blocks but GUI Designer is not perfect and has different problems on different systems and the IDE itself is still under heavy development.
Other options are Java and C# but those are not cross-platform languages, those are platforms themselves. Although you wouldn't need to compile code for each platform there will a lot of different issues on the way...
If your GUI's simple enough, why not just create a generic GUI layer, then program to that? Compile a version for each OS using native widgets. That's the best way to ensure native L&F on multiple platforms.
Both the Qt and REALbasic suggestions are good, although they tie you to that particular technology (which I can't imagine would be an issue in this particular case).
Personally, I'd go with Java, because it's worked for me before (I had an app that ran on my PDA, my phone and my desktop), but it doesn't use native widgets.
Adding a late comment here:
Take a look at Revolution. It's sort of like a modern Hyper-card on roids. And it's cross platform (Mac, Linux and Windows). This is a serious competitor to RealBasic and is coming on strong. Though I still use RB (and like it) I'm giving Revolution a serious look at.
I would also look into either Realbasic or Revolution. They both create cross platform native apps. Personally I think Realbasic would be a better choice as it is very similar, language wise, to VB. You can learn some valuable skills with RB and it can grow with your experience. I have been using VB and RB for more then 10 years combined and I think you will be happy.
If you need your code to be cross platform, you would have to go with something like QT.
Although, I would recommend using native API for each one (Cocoa for Mac OS X, .NET or the Win32 API for Windows). User experience will be much better. But of course, that will cost you more money in terms of developers hours.
Are you choosing not to use managed code for any new applications for Win32? Why? Are there resources you need that aren't available from the CLR?
(Note "New" - not enhancements to existing codebases.)
One significant reason is ease of deployment. I can build a Win32 application (using MFC or WTL libraries), and with static linking there are no dependencies on external libraries (yes, I know that static linking is not the recommended approach).
Users can install and run this application without having to install anything else first: no framework library required, and no DLL hell. For comparison, read these posts from the author of Paint.Net to see how painful it can be for a user to install a .Net application.
I guess my last reason to write Win32 is portability. C++ compiles on all platforms, simply and without crazy dependencies. So for portable code, I still end up needing to access Win32 for the GUI.
I'm not bypassing .NET to do Win32 programming. I am bypassing both of them to do Java programming since I want my applications to run on as many platforms as possible. Windows may control a majority of the market but I don't see any reason to cut out even small possibilities for profit, especially since I can write Java code much faster than C++ or C# (that's based on my ability, not a reflection of the languages themselves).
Neither .NET not Win32 give me that cross-platform ability at the moment. They may eventually, with Mono, but I still consider that less-than-production-ready and there's still a question over its future in my mind.
At my workplace there are some old-timers who prefer using MFC because that's what they are familiar with. A few days ago we were to create a simple app and, naturally, they wanted to whip it out in MFC. Only that "whipping out" would have taken about a week and we needed the app in a day. I can't really blame them - old habits die hard. Eventually we went with C# and let the MFC-ers fiddle with the GUI design (which they much appreciated).
Yes and no. I use C++/CLI if I need to do any Win32/COM stuff. C++/CLI is wonderful. Our UIs are entirely .NET, but occasionally we do have need to use straight C++.