In designing any desktop applications, are there any general rules on how much memory should the application uses?
For heavy-weight applications, those can be easily understood or at least profiled such as Firefox or Google Chrome. But for smaller utilities or line-of-business application, how much is an acceptable amount of memory usage?
I asked because I've recently come across a trade-off between memory usage and performance and wonder if there is any general consensus regarding it?
EDIT: Platform is Windows XP for users with machine just capable of running rich internet applications.
My specific trade-off problem is about caching a lot of images in memory. If possible, I'd love to have my app cache as much as the user's memory will allow. I have done it so that the application will cache upto a certain maximum limit considering memory pressure at the moment..
But what would be a good number? How do you come up with one? That's the point I'm asking.
There is no absolute answer for this. It depends on too many variables.
Here are some trade-offs for consideration:
What device/platform are you developing for?
Do you expect your user to use this software as the main purpose for their computer (example maybe you are developing some kind of server software)
Who is your target audience, home users? power users?
Are you making realistic expectations for the amount of RAM a user will have?
Are you taking into consideration that the user will be using a lot of other software on that computer as well?
Sometimes it's possible to have your cake and eat it too. For example if you were reading a file and writing it back out, you could read it chunk by chunk instead of reading the whole file into memory and then writing it out. In this case you have better memory usage, and no speed decrease.
I would generally recommend to use more RAM to get better speed if you must. But only if the RAM requirements are realistic for your target audience. For example if you expect a home user that has 1GB of RAM to use your program, then don't use 600MB of RAM yourself.
Consider using more RAM in this instance to get better speed, and to optimize some other part of your code to use less RAM.
Edit:
About your specific situation of caching images. I think it would be best for you to allow the user to set the amount of caching they would like to perform as an option. That way people with a lot of RAM can put it higher for better performance, and the people with little RAM can set it low.
This depends entirely on your target platform, which is more or less a business decision. The more memory you will need, the less customers will be able to use your software. Some questions to ask: How much memory do your customers (or potential customers) have installed in their computers? What other applications will they run simultaneously with your application? Is your application something assumed to be running exclusively (like a full screen computer game), or a utility which is supposed to run mostly in background, or to be switched into it from other applications often?
Hear is one example of a survey showing a distribution of installed RAM in systems of people playing games via Steam (source: Valve - Survey Summary Data):
Less than 96 Mb 0.01 %
96 Mb to 127 Mb 0.01 %
128 Mb to 255 Mb 0.21 %
256 Mb to 511 Mb 5.33 %
512 Mb to 999 Mb 19.81 %
1 Gb to 1.49 Gb 30.16 %
1.5 Gb to 1.99 Gb 6.10 %
2.0 Gb 38.37 %
A conclusion I would draw from a survey like this in my domain (computer games) is I can reasonably expect almost all our users having 512 MB or more, and vast majority having 1 GB or more. For a computer game which is supposed to run exclusive this means working set around 400 MB is rather safe and will limit almost no one out, and if it provides a significant added value for the product, it may have a sense to have a working set around 800 MB.
This depends on your target PC hardware. If your application uses too much memory then it will be slow while windows pages. TEST! Try both options in your compromise, and some in between if it makes sense. Run the tests on a typical machine that your users would use and with a sensible number of other applications open. So for most people that is Outlook and probably an instance or 2 of Internet Explorer (or the mail client/browser of your choice). I work in an organistion where uses of my application are also likely to be running some other custom applications so we test with those running as well. We have found that our application used too much memory, and makes switching application painfully slow so we have slowed our application slightly to reduce its memory usage.
If you are interested our target hardware was originally 512Mb machines becuase that was what our common standard spec workstation was. Several PC's had to be upgraded to 1Gb though becuase of this application. We have now trimmed its RAM usage a bit but it is written in VB .NET and most of the memory used seems to be the framework. PerfMon says the process is using aroung 200Mb (peak) but that the managed heap is only around 2Mb!
Related
I'm using a multi-threaded software(PFC3D developped by Itasca consulting) to do some simulations.After moving to a powerful computer Intel Xeon Gold 5120T CPU 2.2GHZ 2.19 GHZ (2 Processors)(28 physical cores, 56 logical cores)(Windows10) to have rapid calculations, the software seems to only use a limited number of cores.Normally the number of cores detected in the software is 56 and it takes automaticly the maximum number of cores.
I'm quite sure that the problem is in the system not in my software because I'm running the same code in a intel core i9-9880H Processor (16 logical cores) and it'is using all the cores with even more efficiency than the xeon gold.
The software is using 22 to 30;
28 cores/56 threads are displayed on task managers CPU page.I have windows 10 pro.
I appreciate very much your precious help.
Thank you
Youssef
interface
classes
details
code
It's hard to say because I do not have the code and you provide so little information.
You seems to have no IO because you said that you use 100% of the CPU on i9. That should simplify a little bit but...
There could be many reasons.
My feeling is that you have threading synchronisation (like critical section) that depends on shared ressource(s). That ressource seems to be lightly solicitated and thread require it just a little wich enable 16 threads to access it without too much collisions (or very little). I mean that thread do not have to wait for shared resource (it is mostly available / not locked). But adding more threads improve significantly collisions amount (locking state of shared ressources by another thread) to have to wait for that ressource. That really sounds like something like that. But it is only a guess.
A quick try that could potentially improve the performance (because I have the feeling that shared resource require very quick access), is to use SpinLock instead of regular Critical Section. But that is totally a guess based on very little and also SpinLock is available in C# but perhaps not in your language.
About the number of CPU taken, it could be normal to take only the half depending on how the program is made. Sometimes it could be better to not use hyperthreaded and perhaps your program is doing this itself. Also there could be a bug in either the program itself, in C# or in the BIOS which tell the app that there is only 28 cpus instead of 56 (usually due to hyperthreading). IT is still a guess.
There could be some additional information that could potentially help you in this stack overflow question.
Good luck.
When using the desktop PC's in my university (Which have 4Gb of ram), calculations in Matlab are fairly speedy, but on my laptop (Which also has 4Gb of ram), the exact same calculations take ages. My laptop is much more modern so I assume it also has a similar clock speed to the desktops.
For example, I have written a program that calculates the solid angle subtended by 50 disks at 500 points. On the desktop PC's this calculation takes about 15 seconds, on my laptop it takes about 5 minutes.
Is there a way to reduce the time taken to perform these calculations? e.g, can I allocate more ram to MATLAB, or can I boot up my PC in a way that optimises it for using MATLAB? I'm thinking that if the processor on my laptop is also doing calculations to run other programs this will slow down the MATLAB calculations. I've closed all other applications, but I know theres probably a lot of stuff going on I can't see. Can I boot my laptop up in a way that will have less of these things going on in the background?
I can't modify the code to make it more efficient.
Thanks!
You might run some of my benchmarks which, along with example results, can be found via:
http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/
The CPU core used at a particular point in time, is the same on Pentiums, Celerons, Core 2s, Xeons and others. Only differences are L2/L3 cache sizes and external memory bus speeds. So you can compare most results with similar vintage 2 GHz CPUs. Things to try, besides simple number crunching tests.
1 - Try memory test, such as my BusSpeed, to show that caches are being used and RAM not dead slow.
2 - Assuming Windows, check that the offending program is the one using most CPU time in Task Manager, also that with the program not running, that CPU utilisation is around zero.
3 - Check that CPU temperature is not too high, like with SpeedFan (free D/L).
4 - If disk light is flashing, too much RAM might be being used, with some being swapped in and out. Task Manager Performance would show this. Increasing RAM demands can be checked my some of my reliability tests.
There are many things that go into computing power besides RAM. You mention processor speed, but there is also number of cores, GPU capability and more. Programs like MATLAB are designed to take advantage of features like parallelism.
Summary: You can't compare only RAM between two machines and expect to know how they will perform with respect to one another.
Side note: 4 GB is not very much RAM for a modern laptop.
Firstly you should perform a CPU performance benchmark on both computers.
Modern operating systems usually apply the most aggressive power management schemes when it is run on laptop. This usually means turning off one or more cores, or setting them to a very low frequency. For example, a Quad-core CPU that normally runs at 2.0 GHz could be throttled down to 700 MHz on one CPU while the other three are basically put to sleep, while it is on battery. (Remark. Numbers are not taken from a real example.)
The OS manages the CPU frequency in a dynamic way, tweaking it on the order of seconds. You will need a software monitoring tool that actually asks for the CPU frequency every second (without doing busy work itself) in order to know if this is the case.
Plugging in the laptop will make the OS use a less aggressive power management scheme.
(If this is found to be unrelated to MATLAB, please "flag" this post and ask moderator to move this question to the SuperUser site.)
I'm developing a client/server application where the server holds large pieces of data such as big images or video files which are requested by the client and I need to create an in-memory client caching system to hold a few of those large data to speed up the process. Just to be clear, each individual image or video is not that big but the overall size of all of them can be really big.
But I'm faced with the "how much data should I cache" problem and was wondering if there are some kind of golden rules on Windows about what strategy I should adopt. The caching is done on the client, I do not need caching on the server.
Should I stay under x% of global memory usage at all time ? And how much would that be ? What will happen if another program is launched and takes up a lot of memory, should I empty the cache ?
Should I request how much free memory is available prior to caching and use a fixed percentage of that memory for my needs ?
I hope I do not have to go there but should I ask the user how much memory he is willing to allocate to my application ? If so, how can I calculate the default value for that property and for those who will never use that setting ?
Rather than create your own caching algorithms why don't you write the data to a file with the FILE_ATTRIBUTE_TEMPORARY attribute and make use of the client machine's own cache.
Although this approach appears to imply that you use a file, if there is memory available in the system then the file will never leave the cache and will remain in memory the whole time.
Some advantages:
You don't need to write any code.
The system cache takes account of all the other processes running. It would not be practical for you to take that on yourself.
On 64 bit Windows the system can use all the memory available to it for the cache. In a 32 bit Delphi process you are limited to the 32 bit address space.
Even if your cache is full and your files to get flushed to disk, local disk access is much faster than querying the database and then transmitting the files over the network.
It depends on what other software runs on the server. I would make it possible to configure it manually at first. Develop a system that can use a specific amount of memory. If you can, build it so that you can change that value while it is running.
If you got those possibilities, you can try some tweaking to see what works best. I don't know any golden rules, but I'd figure you should be able to set a percentage of total memory or total available memory with a specific minimum amount of memory to be free for the system at all times. If you save a miminum of say 500 MB for the server OS, you can use the rest, or 90% of the rest for your cache. But those numbers depend on the version of the OS and the other applications running on the server.
I think it's best to make the numbers configurable from the outside and create a management tool that lets you set the values manually first. Then, if you found out what works best, you can deduct formulas to calculate those values, and integrate them in your management tool. This tool should not be an integral part of the cache program itself (which will probably be a service without GUI anyway).
Questions:
One image can be requested by multiple clients? Or, one image can be requested by multiple times in a short interval?
How short is the interval?
The speed of the network is really high? Higher than the speed of the hard drive?? If you have a normal network, then the harddrive will be able to read the files from disk and deliver them over network in real time. Especially that Windows is already doing some good caching so the most recent files are already in cache.
The main purpose of the computer that is running the server app is to run the server? Or is just a normal computer used also for other tasks? In other words is it a dedicated server or a normal workstation/desktop?
but should I ask the user how much
memory he is willing to allocate to my
application ?
I would definitively go there!!!
If the user thinks that the server application is not a important application it will probably give it low priority (low cache). Else, it it thinks it is the most important running app, it will allow the app to allocate all RAM it needs in detriment of other less important applications.
Just deliver the application with that setting set by default to a acceptable value (which will be something like x% of the total amount of RAM). I will use like 70% of total RAM if the main purpose of the computer to hold this server application and about 40-50% if its purpose is 'general use' computer.
A server application usually needs resources set aside for its own use by its administrator. I would not care about others application behaviour, I would care about being a "polite" application, thereby it should allow memory cache size and so on to be configurable by the administator, which is the only one who knows how to configure his systems properly (usually...)
Defaults values should anyway take into consideration how much memory is available overall, especially on 32 bit systems with less than 4GB of memory (as long as Delphi delivers only 32 bit apps), to leave something free to the operating systems and avoids too frequent swapping. Asking the user to select it at setup is also advisable.
If the application is the only one running on a server, a value between 40 to 75% of available memory could be ok (depending on how much memory is needed beyond the cache), but again, ask the user because it's almost impossible to know what other applications running may need. You can also have a min cache size and a max cache size, start by allocating the lower value, and then grow it when and if needed, and shrink it if necessary.
On a 32 bit system this is a kind of memory usage that could benefit from using PAE/AWE to access more than 3GB of memory.
Update: you can also perform a monitoring of cache hits/misses and calculate which cache size would fit the user needs best (it could be too small but too large as well), and the advise the user about that.
To be honest, the questions you ask would not be my main concern. I would be more concerned with how effective my cache would be. If your files are really that big, how many can you hold in the cache? And if your client server app has many users, what are the chances that your cache will actually cache something someone else will use?
It might be worth doing an analysis before you burn too much time on the fine details.
I've now saved a bit of money for the hardware upgrade. What I'd like to know, which is the easiest way to measure which part of hardware is the bottleneck for compiling and should be upgraded?
Are there any clever techniques I could use? I've looked into perfmon, but it has too many counters and isn't very helpful without exact knowledge what should be looked at.
Conditions: Home development, Windows XP Pro, Visual Studio 2008
Thanks!
The question is really "what is maxed out during compilation?"
If you don't want to use perfmon, you can use something like the task monitor.
Run a compile.
See what's maxed out.
Did you go to 100% CPU for the whole time? Get more CPU -- faster or more cores or something.
Did you go to 100% memory for the whole time? Which number matters on the display? The only memory you can buy is "physical" memory. The only factor that matters is physical memory. The other things you see on the meter are not things you buy, they're adjustments to make to the way Windows works.
Did you go to "huge" amounts of I/O? You can't easily tell what's "huge", but you can conclude this. If you're not using memory and not using CPU, then you're using the only resource that's left -- you're I/O bound and you need a faster bus -- which usually means a whole new machine.
A faster HDD is of little or no value -- the bus clock speed is one limiting factor. The bus width is the other limiting factor. No one designs an ass-kicking I/O bus and then saddles it with junk HDD's. Usually, they design the bus that fits a specific cost target based on available HDD's.
A faster HDD is of little or no value -- the bus clock speed is one limiting factor. The bus width is the other limiting factor. No one designs an ass-kicking I/O bus and then saddles it with junk HDD's. Usually, they design the bus that fits a specific cost target based on available HDD's.
Garbage. Modern HDDs are slow compared to the I/O buses they are connected to. Name a single HDD that can max out a SATA 2 interface (and that is even a generation old now) for random IOPS... A hard drive is lucky to hit 10MB/s when the bus is capable of around 280MB/s.
E.g. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2948/3. Even there the SSDs are only hitting 50MB/s. It's clear the IOPs are NOT the bottleneck otherwise the HDD would do just as much as the SSDs.
I've never seen a computer IOPs bound rather than HDD bound. It doesn't happen.
Using the task monitor has already been suggested but the Sys Internals task monitor gives you more information than the built-in Windows task monitor:
Sys Internals task monitor
You might also want to see what other things are running on your PC which are using up memory and / or CPU processing power. It may be possible to remove or only run on demand things which are affecting performance.
Windows XP will only support 3GB of memory using a switch that you have to turn on and
I seem to remember that applications need to be written to actually take this into consideration.
Applications like Microsoft Outlook and the Eclipse IDE consume RAM, as much as 200MB. Is it OK for a modern application to consume that much memory, given that few years back we had only 256MB of RAM? Also, why this is happening? Are we taking the resources for granted?
Is it acceptable when most people have 1 or 2 gigabytes of RAM on their PCS?
Think of this - although your 200mb is small and nothing to worry about given a 2Gb limit, everyone else also has apps that take masses of RAM. Add them together and you find that the 2Gb I have very quickly gets all used up. End result - your app appears slow, resource hungry and takes a long time to startup.
I think people will start to rebel against resource-hungry applications unless they get 'value for ram'. you can see this starting to happen on servers, as virtualised systems gain popularity - people are complaining about resource requirements and corresponding server costs.
As a real-world example, I used to code with VC6 on my old 512Mb 1.7GHz machine, and things were fine - I could open 4 or 5 copies along with Outlook, Word and a web browser and my machine was responsive.
Today I have a dual-processor 2.8Ghz server box with 3Gb RAM, but I cannot realistically run more than 2 copies of Visual Studio 2008, they both take ages to start up (as all that RAM still has to be copied in and set up, along with all the other startup costs we now have), and even Word take ages to load a document.
So if you can reduce memory usage you should. Don't think that you can just use whatever bloated framework/library/practice you want with impunity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law
also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law
There's a couple of things you need to think about.
1/ Do you have 256M now? I wouldn't think so - my smallest memory machine is 2G so a 200M application is not much of a problem.
2a/ That 200M you talk about might not be "real" memory. It may just be address space in which case it might not all be in physical memory at once. Some bits may only be pulled in to physical memory when you choose to do esoteric things.
2b/ It may also be shared between other processes (such as a DLL). This means it could be only held in physical memory as one copy but be present in the address space of many processes. That way, the usage is amortized over those many processes. Both 2a and 2b depend on where your figure of 200M actually came from (which I don't know and, running Linux, I'm unlikel to find out without you telling me :-).
3/ Even if it is physical memory, modern operating systems aren't like the old DOS or Windows 3.1 - they have virtual memory where bits of applications can be paged out (data) or thrown away completely (code, since it can always reload from the executable). Virtual memory gives you the ability to use far more memory than your actual physical memory.
Many modern apps will take advantage of the existance of more memory to cache more. Some like firefox and SQL server have explicit settings for how much memory they will use. In my opinion, it's foolish to not use available memory - what's the point of having 2GB of RAM if your apps all sit around at 10MB leaving 90% of your physical memory unused. Of course, if your app does use caching like this, it better be good at releasing that memory if page file thrashing starts, or allow the user to limit the cache size manually.
You can see the advantage of this by running a decent-sized query against SQL server. The first time you run the query, it may take 10 seconds. But when you run that exact query again, it takes less than a second - why? The query plan was only compiled the first time and cached for use later. The database pages that needed to be read were only loaded from disk the first time - the second time, they were still cached in RAM. If done right, the more memory you use for caching (until you run into paging) the faster you can re-access data. You'll see the same thing in large documents (e.g. in Word and Acrobat) - when you scroll to new areas of a document, things are slow, but once it's been rendered and cached, things speed up. If you don't have enough memory, that cache starts to get overwritten and going to the old parts of the document gets slow again.
If you can make good use of the RAM, it is your responsability to use it.
Yes, it is perfectly normal. Also something big was changed since 256MB were normal... and do not forget that before that 640Kb were supposed to be enough for everybody!
Now most software solutions are build with a garbage collector: C#, Java, Ruby, Python... everybody love them because certainly development can be faster, however there is one glitch.
The same program can be memory leak free with either manual or automatic memory deallocation. However in the second case it is likely for the memory consumption to grow. Why? In the first case memory is deallocated and kept clean immediately after something becomes useless (garbage). However it takes time and computing power to detect that automatically, hence most collectors (except for reference counting) wait for garbage to accumulate in order to make worth the cost of the exploration. The more you wait the more garbage you can sweep with the cost of one blow, but more memory is needed to accumulate that garbage. If you try to force the collector constantly, your program would spend more time exploring memory than working on your problems.
You can be completely sure than as long as programmers get more resources, they will sacrifice them using heavier tools in exchange for more freedom, abstraction and faster development.
A few years ago 256 MB was the norm for a PC, then Outlook consumed about 30 - 35 MB or so of memory, that's around 10% of the available memory, Now PC's have 2 GB or more as a norm, and outlook consumes 200 MB of memory, that's about 10% also.
The 1st conclusion: as more memory is available applications use more of it.
The 2nd conclusion: no matter what time frame you pick there are applications that are true memory hogs (like Outlook) and applications that are very efficient memory wise.
The 3rd conclusion: memory consumption of a app can't go down with time, else 640K would have been enough even today.
It completely depends on the application.