Looking for a bit of advice on how to optimise one of our projects. We have a ASP.NET/C# system that retrieves data from a SQL2008 data and presents it on a DevExpress ASPxGridView. The data that's retrieved can come from one of a number of databases - all of which are slightly different and are being added and removed regularly. The user is presented with a list of live "companies", and the data is retrieved from the corresponding database.
At the moment, data is being retrieved using a standard SqlDataSource and a dynamically-created SQL SELECT statement. There are a few JOINs in the statement, as well as optional WHERE constraints, again dynamically-created depending on the database and the user's permission level.
All of this works great (honest!), apart from performance. When it comes to some databases, there are several hundreds of thousands of rows, and retrieving and paging through the data is quite slow (the databases are already properly indexed). I've therefore been looking at ways of speeding the system up, and it seems to boil down to two choices: XPO or LINQ.
LINQ seems to be the popular choice, but I'm not sure how easy it will be to implement with a system that is so dynamic in nature - would I need to create "definitions" for each database that LINQ could access? I'm also a bit unsure about creating the LINQ queries dynamically too, although looking at a few examples that part at least seems doable.
XPO, on the other hand, seems to allow me to create a XPO Data Source on the fly. However, I can't find too much information on how to JOIN to other tables.
Can anyone offer any advice on which method - if any - is the best to try and retro-fit into this project? Or is the dynamic SQL model currently used fundamentally different from LINQ and XPO and best left alone?
Before you go and change the whole way that your app talks to the database, have you had a look at the following:
Run your code through a performance profiler (such as Redgate's performance profiler), the results are often surprising.
If you are constructing the SQL string on the fly, are you using .Net best practices such as String.Concat("str1", "str2") instead of "str1" + "str2". Remember, multiple small gains add up to big gains.
Have you thought about having a summary table or database that is periodically updated (say every 15 mins, you might need to run a service to update this data automatically.) so that you are only hitting one database. New connections to databases are quiet expensive.
Have you looked at the query plans for the SQL that you are running. Today, I moved a dynamically created SQL string to a sproc (only 1 param changed) and shaved 5-10 seconds off the running time (it was being called 100-10000 times depending on some conditions).
Just a warning if you do use LINQ. I have seen some developers who have decided to use LINQ write more inefficient code because they did not know what they are doing (pulling 36,000 records when they needed to check for 1 for example). This things are very easily overlooked.
Just something to get you started on and hopefully there is something there that you haven't thought of.
Cheers,
Stu
As far as I understand you are talking about so called server mode when all data manipulations are done on the DB server instead of them to the web server and processing them there. In this mode grid works very fast with data sources that can contain hundreds thousands records. If you want to use this mode, you should either create the corresponding LINQ classes or XPO classes. If you decide to use LINQ based server mode, the LINQServerModeDataSource provides the Selecting event which can be used to set a custom IQueryable and KeyExpression. I would suggest that you use LINQ in your application. I hope, this information will be helpful to you.
I guess there are two points where performance might be tweaked in this case. I'll assume that you're accessing the database directly rather than through some kind of secondary layer.
First, you don't say how you're displaying the data itself. If you're loading thousands of records into a grid, that will take time no matter how fast everything else is. Obviously the trick here is to show a subset of the data and allow the user to page, etc. If you're not doing this then that might be a good place to start.
Second, you say that the tables are properly indexed. If this is the case, and assuming that you're not loading 1,000 records into the page at once and retreiving only subsets at a time, then you should be OK.
But, if you're only doing an ExecuteQuery() against an SQL connection to get a dataset back I don't see how Linq or anything else will help you. I'd say that the problem is obviously on the DB side.
So to solve the problem with the database you need to profile the different SELECT statements you're running against it, examine the query plan and identify the places where things are slowing down. You might want to start by using the SQL Server Profiler, but if you have a good DBA, sometimes just looking at the query plan (which you can get from Management Studio) is usually enough.
I have a legacy VB6 app which I am rewriting in .Net. I have not used an ORM package before (being the old fashioned type who likes to know what SQL is being used), but I have seen good reports of NNibernate and I am tempted to use it for this project. I just want to check I won't be shooting myself in the foot.
Because my new app will initially run alongside the existing one, any ORM I use must work with the existing database schema. Also, I need to use SQL server text searching. From what I gather, LINQ to SQL does not support Text searching, so this will rule it out.
The app uses it's own method of allocating IDs for new objects - will NHibernate allow this or does it expect to use it's own mechanisms?
Also I have read that NHibernate does caching. I need to make sure that rows inserted outside of NHibernate are immediately accessible when accessing the database from NHibernate and vice versa.
There are 4 or 5 main tables and 10 or so subsidiary tables. although a couple of the main tables have up to a million rows, the app itself will normally be only returning a few. The user load is low so I don't anticipate performance being a problem.
At the moment I'm not sure whether it will be ASP.NET or win forms but either way I will be expecting to use data binding.
In terms of functionality, The app is not particulatly complicated - the budget to re-implement it is about 20 man days, so if I am going to use ORM it has to be something that will start paying for itself pretty quickly. Similarly I want the app to be simple to deploy and not require some monster enterprise framework.
Any thoughts on whether this is a suitable project for NHibernate would be much appreciated.
While ORMs are good, I personally wouldn't take on the risk of trying to use any ORM on a 20 day project if I had to absorb the ORM learning curve as I went.
If you have ADO.NET infrastructure you are comfortable with and you can live without ORM features, that is the much less risky approach to take.
You should learn ORMs and Linq (not necessarily Linq To Sql) eventually, but it's much more enjoyable when there is no immediate time pressure.
This sounds more like a risk management issue and that requires you to make a personal decision about how willing you are to see the project fail due to embracing new (to you) technologies.
You might also check out LLBL Gen Pro. It is a very mature ORM that handles a lot of different scenarios.
I have successfully fitted an NHibernate domain model to a few legacy database schemas - it's not yet proved impossible, but it is sometimes not without its difficulties. The easiest schemas to map are those where all primary keys and foreign keys are single column ones, but with so few tables you should be able to do the mapping relatively quickly even if this is not true of yours.
I strongly recommend, particularly given your timescale, that you use Fluent NHibernate to do your mappings - the time to learn the XML mapping file syntax may be too big an ask. However, you will need to use an XML mapping file for your full-text indexing stuff (assuming that's what you meant), writing these as named SQL queries. (See nhibernate.info documentation for details.)
Suggest you spend a day or two trying to create a model for a couple of your tables, and writing code to interact with them. There'll always be people on SO ready to answer any questions you have.
You may also want to take a look at Linq to NHibernate - we've found it helpful in terms of abstracting even more of our database access stuff away behind a simple interface. But it's Fluent NHibernate that will give you the biggest and quickest win in terms of "cheating" on the NHibernate learning curve.
I am creating a data source for reporting model (SQL Server Reporting Services).
The reports requires a lot of joins and calculations (let's say, calculating financial parameters like money spent on this, that, amount A vs amount B)...all this involves subobjects.
It makes a lot of sense to me to write unit tests for this code (i.e. walking through order collection, aggregating info based on business rules and subobjects etc.)
To do this properly, I would expect my code to look approx. like this
foreach (IOrder in Orders)
foreach (IOrderLine in IOrder.Orderlines)
...
return ...
and then test the return value.
But this code is not the SQL which is going to be used in the reporting view...of course...
So I am thinking, I could plug-in a .NET assembly in the database.
The issue here is, of course, performance...I don't want to loop all these objects in C#...too slow.
So, naturally, Linq/Lambda/Expression trees seem to be the answer to me.
As we know, when you are doing Linq to SQL, expression trees are built, and then proper SQL is generated based on them.
So, I could write my code in Linq to Objects, using lambda expressions, unit test this code on sample collections (having expressions compiled to .net), and reuse the same code as Linq to SQL in the DB stored procedure, so that inside SQL Server it would generate proper SQL for me (as Linq to SQL already does)...
Then I could get benefits of both unit-tests and writing domain logic code in C# and high-performing stored procedures for reports.
Possible? Can I use Linq/Lambda in SQL Server CLR Stored procedures? Anyone did it or knows how to make it work?
Am I crazy? Do you know a better way of doing it?
Thanks
P.S. I think now I figured out how this should be done properly. According to Udi Dahan, if I understand him right. Database should be denormalized, and all the calculated fields should be on the objects in the table.
When something is happening on the subobject (OrderLine added), my Customer object should receive an event and recalculate the smart value (cache it and persist).
Then reports go straight-forward, without logic and work fast...
No, you cannot use LINQ/Lambda in SQL CRL Procs - it is based on a different version of .NET and does not support those namespaces.
So, I could write my code in Linq to
Objects, using lambda expressions,
unit test this code on sample
collections (having expressions
compiled to .net), and reuse the same
code as Linq to SQL in the DB stored
procedure, so that inside SQL Server
it would generate proper SQL for me
(as Linq to SQL already does)...
This plan was fine until you suggested the CLR code be called from your stored procs. Running CLR code from the database process itself creates a lot of problems with regards to versioning, configuration and database stability... Too many problems if you do that.
Your motivation was to have the benefit of using stored procs, which are faster in general. If those stored procs are in turn running CLR code, they're not going to be faster than the CLR code running in the local process.
Using the LINQ generated expressions technically consumes more CPU cycles than stored procs. This is because the database engine has to regenerate the execution plan each time a query is ran. Typically your database server is on a separate machine though that is not CPU bound (it will be limited instead by disk or network capacity), so this is not a real performance issue. It could be if you run the database server on the same machine as everything else, but don't try to fix this with something so convoluted until its a real issue.
Udi's suggestion may be appropriate, if you want to decrease the overhead of generating the reports. There are two important side effects though to consider first. First, can afford to increase the performance overhead of the operations that pregenerate the reported fields? A bigger problem is that it couples your reporting logic with the code that runs the target system. This prevents you from being able to update the reporting code without also updating the business code, and presumes the reporting code being running as soon as the reported code is put into production.
As someone who hasn't used either technology on real-world projects I wonder if anyone knows how these two complement each other and how much their functionalities overlap?
LINQ to SQL forces you to use the table-per-class pattern. The benefits of using this pattern are that it's quick and easy to implement and it takes very little effort to get your domain running based on an existing database structure. For simple applications, this is perfectly acceptable (and oftentimes even preferable), but for more complex applications devs will often suggest using a domain driven design pattern instead (which is what NHibernate facilitates).
The problem with the table-per-class pattern is that your database structure has a direct influence over your domain design. For instance, let's say you have a Customers table with the following columns to hold a customer's primary address information:
StreetAddress
City
State
Zip
Now, let's say you want to add columns for the customer's mailing address as well so you add in the following columns to the Customers table:
MailingStreetAddress
MailingCity
MailingState
MailingZip
Using LINQ to SQL, the Customer object in your domain would now have properties for each of these eight columns. But if you were following a domain driven design pattern, you would probably have created an Address class and had your Customer class hold two Address properties, one for the mailing address and one for their current address.
That's a simple example, but it demonstrates how the table-per-class pattern can lead to a somewhat smelly domain. In the end, it's up to you. Again, for simple apps that just need basic CRUD (create, read, update, delete) functionality, LINQ to SQL is ideal because of simplicity. But personally I like using NHibernate because it facilitates a cleaner domain.
Edit: #lomaxx - Yes, the example I used was simplistic and could have been optimized to work well with LINQ to SQL. I wanted to keep it as basic as possible to drive home the point. The point remains though that there are several scenarios where having your database structure determine your domain structure would be a bad idea, or at least lead to suboptimal OO design.
Two points that have been missed so far:
LINQ to SQL does not work with Oracle
or any database apart from SqlServer. However 3rd parties do offer better support for Oracle, e.g. devArt's dotConnect, DbLinq, Mindscape's LightSpeed and ALinq. (I do not have any personal experience with these)
Linq to NHibernate lets you used
Linq with a Nhiberate, so it may
remove a reason not to use.
Also the new fluent interface to Nhibernate seems to make it less painful to configure Nhibernate’s mapping. (Removing one of the pain points of Nhibernate)
Update
Linq to Nhiberate is better in Nhiberate v3 that is now in alpha. Looks like Nhiberate v3 may ship towards the end of this year.
The Entity Frame Work as of .net 4 is also starting to look like a real option.
#Kevin: I think the problem with the example you are presenting is that you are using a poor database design. I would have thought you'd create a customer table and an address table and normalized the tables. If you do that you can definately use Linq To SQL for the scenario you're suggesting. Scott Guthrie has a great series of posts on using Linq To SQL which I would strongly suggest you check out.
I don't think you could say Linq and NHibernate complement each other as that would imply that they could be used together, and whilst this is possible, you're much better off choosing one and sticking to it.
NHibernate allows you to map your database tables to your domain objects in a highly flexible way. It also allows you to use HBL to query the database.
Linq to SQL also allows you to map your domain objects to the database however it use the Linq query syntax to query the database
The main difference here is that the Linq query syntax is checked at compile time by the compiler to ensure your queries are valid.
Some things to be aware of with linq is that it's only available in .net 3.x and is only supported in VS2008. NHibernate is available in 2.0 and 3.x as well as VS2005.
Some things to be aware of with NHibernate is that it does not generate your domain objects, nor does it generate the mapping files. You need to do this manually. Linq can
do this automatically for you.
Fluent NHibernate can generate your mapping files based on simple conventions. No XML-writing and strongly typed.
I've recently worked on a project, where we needed to change from Linq To SQL to NHibernate for performance reasons. Especially L2S's way of materializing the objects seems slower than NHibernate's ditto and the change management is quite slow too. And it can be hard to turn the change management off for specific scenarios where it is not needed.
If you are going to use your entities disconnected from the DataContext - in WCF scenarios for example - you're may have a lot of trouble connecting them to the DataContext again for updating the changes. I have had no problems with that with NHibernate.
The thing I will miss from L2S is mostly the code generation that keeps relations up-to-date on both ends of the entities. But I guess there are some tools for NHibernate to do that out there too...
Can you clarify what you mean by "LINQ"?
LINQ isn't an data access technology, it's just a language feature which supports querying as a native construct. It can query any object model which supports specific interfaces (e.g. IQueryable).
Many people refer to LINQ To SQL as LINQ, but that's not at all correct. Microsoft has just released LINQ To Entities with .NET 3.5 SP1. Additionally, NHibernate has a LINQ interface, so you could use LINQ and NHibernate to get at your data.
By LINQ, I'm assuming you mean LINQ to SQL because LINQ, by itself, has no database "goings on" associated with it. It's just an query language that has a boat-load of syntac sugar to make it look SQL-ish.
In the very basic of basic examples, NHibernate and LINQ to SQL seem to both be solving the same problem. Once you get pass that you soon realize that NHibernate has support for a lot of features that allow you to create truly rich domain models. There is also a LINQ to NHibernate project that allows you to use LINQ to query NHibernate in much the same way as you would use LINQ to SQL.
First let´s separate two different things:
Database modeling is concerned about the data while object modeling is concerned about entities and relationships.
Linq-to-SQL advantage is to quickly generate classes out of database schema so that they can be used as active record objects (see active record design pattern definition).
NHibernate advantage is to allow flexibility between your object modeling and database modeling. Database can be modeled to best reflect your data taking in consideration performance for instance. While your object modeling will best reflect the elements of the business rule using an approach such as Domain-Driven-Design. (see Kevin Pang comment)
With legacy databases with poor modeling and/or naming conventions then Linq-to-SQL will reflect this unwanted structures and names to your classes. However NHibernate can hide this mess with data mappers.
In greenfield projects where databases have good naming and low complexity, Linq-to-SQL can be good choice.
However you can use Fluent NHibernate with auto-mappings for this same purpose with mapping as convention. In this case you don´t worry about any data mappers with XML or C# and let NHibernate to generate the database schema from your entities based on a convention that you can customize.
On the other hand learning curve of Linq-to-SQL is smaller then NHibernate.
Or you could use the Castle ActiveRecords project. I've been using that for a short time to ramp up some new code for a legacy project. It uses NHibernate and works on the active record pattern (surprising given its name I know). I haven't tried, but I assume that once you've used it, if you feel the need to drop to NHibernate support directly, it wouldn't be too much to do so for part or all of your project.
As you written "for a person who have not used either of the them"
LINQ to SQL is easy to use so any one can use it easily
It also support procedures, which helps most of the time.
Suppose you want to get data from more than one table then write a procedure and drag that procedure to designer and it will create everything for you,
Suppose your procedure name is "CUSTOMER_ORDER_LINEITEM" which fetch record from all these three table then just write
MyDataContext db = new MyDataContext();
List<CUSTOMER_ORDER_LINEITEMResult> records = db.CUSTOMER_ORDER_LINEITEM(pram1, param2 ...).ToList<CUSTOMER_ORDER_LINEITEMResult>();
you can use you records object in foreach loop as well, which is not supported by NHibernate
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I took a look at the "Beginner's Guide to LINQ" post here on StackOverflow (Beginners Guide to LINQ), but had a follow-up question:
We're about to ramp up a new project where nearly all of our database op's will be fairly simple data retrievals (there's another segment of the project which already writes the data). Most of our other projects up to this point make use of stored procedures for such things. However, I'd like to leverage LINQ-to-SQL if it makes more sense.
So, the question is this: For simple data retrievals, which approach is better, LINQ-to-SQL or stored procs? Any specific pro's or con's?
Thanks.
Some advantages of LINQ over sprocs:
Type safety: I think we all understand this.
Abstraction: This is especially true with LINQ-to-Entities. This abstraction also allows the framework to add additional improvements that you can easily take advantage of. PLINQ is an example of adding multi-threading support to LINQ. Code changes are minimal to add this support. It would be MUCH harder to do this data access code that simply calls sprocs.
Debugging support: I can use any .NET debugger to debug the queries. With sprocs, you cannot easily debug the SQL and that experience is largely tied to your database vendor (MS SQL Server provides a query analyzer, but often that isn't enough).
Vendor agnostic: LINQ works with lots of databases and the number of supported databases will only increase. Sprocs are not always portable between databases, either because of varying syntax or feature support (if the database supports sprocs at all).
Deployment: Others have mentioned this already, but it's easier to deploy a single assembly than to deploy a set of sprocs. This also ties in with #4.
Easier: You don't have to learn T-SQL to do data access, nor do you have to learn the data access API (e.g. ADO.NET) necessary for calling the sprocs. This is related to #3 and #4.
Some disadvantages of LINQ vs sprocs:
Network traffic: sprocs need only serialize sproc-name and argument data over the wire while LINQ sends the entire query. This can get really bad if the queries are very complex. However, LINQ's abstraction allows Microsoft to improve this over time.
Less flexible: Sprocs can take full advantage of a database's featureset. LINQ tends to be more generic in it's support. This is common in any kind of language abstraction (e.g. C# vs assembler).
Recompiling: If you need to make changes to the way you do data access, you need to recompile, version, and redeploy your assembly. Sprocs can sometimes allow a DBA to tune the data access routine without a need to redeploy anything.
Security and manageability are something that people argue about too.
Security: For example, you can protect your sensitive data by restricting access to the tables directly, and put ACLs on the sprocs. With LINQ, however, you can still restrict direct access to tables and instead put ACLs on updatable table views to achieve a similar end (assuming your database supports updatable views).
Manageability: Using views also gives you the advantage of shielding your application non-breaking from schema changes (like table normalization). You can update the view without requiring your data access code to change.
I used to be a big sproc guy, but I'm starting to lean towards LINQ as a better alternative in general. If there are some areas where sprocs are clearly better, then I'll probably still write a sproc but access it using LINQ. :)
I am generally a proponent of putting everything in stored procedures, for all of the reasons DBAs have been harping on for years. In the case of Linq, it is true that there will be no performance difference with simple CRUD queries.
But keep a few things in mind when making this decision: using any ORM couples you tightly to your data model. A DBA has no freedom to make changes to the data model without forcing you to change your compiled code. With stored procedures, you can hide these sorts of changes to an extent, since the parameter list and results set(s) returned from a procedure represent its contract, and the innards can be changed around, just so long as that contract is still met.
And also, if Linq is used for more complex queries, tuning the database becomes a much more difficult task. When a stored procedure is running slow, the DBA can totally focus on the code in isolation, and has lots of options, just so that contract is still satisfied when he/she is done.
I have seen many, many cases where serious problems in an application were addressed by changes to the schema and code in stored procedures without any change to deployed, compiled code.
Perhaps a hybird approach would be nice with Linq? Linq can, of course, be used to call stored procedures.
Linq to Sql.
Sql server will cache the query plans, so there's no performance gain for sprocs.
Your linq statements, on the other hand, will be logically part of and tested with your application. Sprocs are always a bit separated and are harder to maintain and test.
If I was working on a new application from scratch right now I would just use Linq, no sprocs.
For basic data retrieval I would be going for Linq without hesitation.
Since moving to Linq I've found the following advantages:
Debugging my DAL has never been easier.
Compile time safety when your schema changes is priceless.
Deployment is easier because everything is compiled into DLL's. No more managing deployment scripts.
Because Linq can support querying anything that implements the IQueryable interface, you will be able to use the same syntax to query XML, Objects and any other datasource without having to learn a new syntax
LINQ will bloat the procedure cache
If an application is using LINQ to SQL and the queries involve the use of strings that can be highly variable in length, the SQL Server procedure cache will become bloated with one version of the query for every possible string length. For example, consider the following very simple queries created against the Person.AddressTypes table in the AdventureWorks2008 database:
var p =
from n in x.AddressTypes
where n.Name == "Billing"
select n;
var p =
from n in x.AddressTypes
where n.Name == "Main Office"
select n;
If both of these queries are run, we will see two entries in the SQL Server procedure cache: One bound with an NVARCHAR(7), and the other with an NVARCHAR(11). Now imagine if there were hundreds or thousands of different input strings, all with different lengths. The procedure cache would become unnecessarily filled with all sorts of different plans for the exact same query.
More here: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=363290
I think the pro LINQ argument seems to be coming from people who don't have a history with database development (in general).
Especially if using a product like VS DB Pro or Team Suite, many of the arguments made here do not apply, for instance:
Harder to maintain and Test:
VS provides full syntax checking, style checking, referential and constraint checking and more. It also provide full unit testing capabilities and refactoring tools.
LINQ makes true unit testing impossible as (in my mind) it fails the ACID test.
Debugging is easier in LINQ:
Why? VS allows full step-in from managed code and regular debugging of SPs.
Compiled into a single DLL rather than deployment scripts:
Once again, VS comes to the rescue where it can build and deploy full databases or make data-safe incremental changes.
Don't have to learn TSQL with LINQ:
No you don't, but you have to learn LINQ - where's the benefit?
I really don't see this as being a benefit. Being able to change something in isolation might sound good in theory, but just because the changes fulfil a contract doesn't mean it's returning the correct results. To be able to determine what the correct results are you need context and you get that context from the calling code.
Um, loosely coupled apps are the ultimate goal of all good programmers as they really do increase flexibility. Being able to change things in isolation is fantastic, and it is your unit tests that will ensure it is still returning appropriate results.
Before you all get upset, I think LINQ has its place and has a grand future. But for complex, data-intensive applications I do not think it is ready to take the place of stored procedures. This was a view I had echoed by an MVP at TechEd this year (they will remain nameless).
EDIT: The LINQ to SQL Stored Procedure side of things is something I still need to read more on - depending on what I find I may alter my above diatribe ;)
LINQ is new and has its place. LINQ is not invented to replace stored procedure.
Here I will focus on some performance myths & CONS, just for "LINQ to SQL", of course I might be totally wrong ;-)
(1)People say LINQ statment can "cache" in SQL server, so it doesn't lose performance. Partially true. "LINQ to SQL" actually is the runtime translating LINQ syntax to TSQL statment. So from the performance perspective,a hard coded ADO.NET SQL statement has no difference than LINQ.
(2)Given an example, a customer service UI has a "account transfer" function. this function itself might update 10 DB tables and return some messages in one shot. With LINQ, you have to build a set of statements and send them as one batch to SQL server. the performance of this translated LINQ->TSQL batch can hardly match stored procedure. Reason? because you can tweak the smallest unit of the statement in Stored procedue by using the built-in SQL profiler and execution plan tool, you can not do this in LINQ.
The point is, when talking single DB table and small set of data CRUD, LINQ is as fast as SP. But for much more complicated logic, stored procedure is more performance tweakable.
(3)"LINQ to SQL" easily makes newbies to introduce performance hogs. Any senior TSQL guy can tell you when not to use CURSOR (Basically you should not use CURSOR in TSQL in most cases). With LINQ and the charming "foreach" loop with query, It's so easy for a newbie to write such code:
foreach(Customer c in query)
{
c.Country = "Wonder Land";
}
ctx.SubmitChanges();
You can see this easy decent code is so attractive. But under the hood, .NET runtime just translate this to an update batch. If there are only 500 lines, this is 500 line TSQL batch; If there are million lines, this is a hit. Of course, experienced user won't use this way to do this job, but the point is, it's so easy to fall in this way.
The best code is no code, and with stored procedures you have to write at least some code in the database and code in the application to call it , whereas with LINQ to SQL or LINQ to Entities, you don't have to write any additional code beyond any other LINQ query aside from instantiating a context object.
LINQ definitely has its place in application-specific databases and in small businesses.
But in a large enterprise, where central databases serve as a hub of common data for many applications, we need abstraction. We need to centrally manage security and show access histories. We need to be able to do impact analysis: if I make a small change to the data model to serve a new business need, what queries need to be changed and what applications need to be re-tested? Views and Stored Procedures give me that. If LINQ can do all that, and make our programmers more productive, I'll welcome it -- does anyone have experience using it in this kind of environment?
A DBA has no freedom to make changes
to the data model without forcing you
to change your compiled code. With
stored procedures, you can hide these
sorts of changes to an extent, since
the parameter list and results set(s)
returned from a procedure represent
its contract, and the innards can be
changed around, just so long as that
contract is still met.
I really don't see this as being a benefit. Being able to change something in isolation might sound good in theory, but just because the changes fulfil a contract doesn't mean it's returning the correct results. To be able to determine what the correct results are you need context and you get that context from the calling code.
I think you need to go with procs for anything real.
A) Writing all your logic in linq means your database is less useful because only your application can consume it.
B) I'm not convinced that object modelling is better than relational modelling anyway.
C) Testing and developing a stored procedure in SQL is a hell of a lot faster than a compile edit cycle in any Visual Studio environment. You just edit, F5 and hit select and you are off to the races.
D) It's easier to manage and deploy stored procedures than assemblies.. you just put the file on the server, and press F5...
E) Linq to sql still writes crappy code at times when you don't expect it.
Honestly, I think the ultimate thing would be for MS to augment t-sql so that it can do a join projection impliclitly the way linq does. t-sql should know if you wanted to do order.lineitems.part, for example.
LINQ doesn't prohibit the use of stored procedures. I've used mixed mode with LINQ-SQL and LINQ-storedproc. Personally, I'm glad I don't have to write the stored procs....pwet-tu.
IMHO, RAD = LINQ, RUP = Stored Procs. I worked for a large Fortune 500 company for many years, at many levels including management, and frankly, I would never hire RUP developers to do RAD development. They are so siloed that they very limited knowledge of what to do at other levels of the process. With a siloed environment, it makes sense to give DBAs control over the data through very specific entry points, because others frankly don't know the best ways to accomplish data management.
But large enterprises move painfully slow in the development arena, and this is extremely costly. There are times when you need to move faster to save both time and money, and LINQ provides that and more in spades.
Sometimes I think that DBAs are biased against LINQ because they feel it threatens their job security. But that's the nature of the beast, ladies and gentlemen.
According to gurus, I define LINQ as motorcycle and SP as car.
If you want to go for a short trip and only have small passengers(in this case 2), go gracefully with LINQ.
But if you want to go for a journey and have large band, i think you should choose SP.
As a conclusion, choosing between motorcycle or car is depend on your route (business), length (time), and passengers (data).
Hope it helps, I may be wrong. :D
Also, there is the issue of possible 2.0 rollback. Trust me it has happened to me a couple of times so I am sure it has happened to others.
I also agree that abstraction is the best. Along with the fact, the original purpose of an ORM is to make RDBMS match up nicely to the OO concepts. However, if everything worked fine before LINQ by having to deviate a bit from OO concepts then screw 'em. Concepts and reality don't always fit well together. There is no room for militant zealots in IT.
I'm assuming you mean Linq To Sql
For any CRUD command it's easy to profile the performance of a stored procedure vs. any technology. In this case any difference between the two will be negligible. Try profiling for a 5 (simple types) field object over 100,000 select queries to find out if there's a real difference.
On the other hand the real deal-breaker will be the question on whether you feel comfortable putting your business logic on your database or not, which is an argument against stored procedures.
All these answers leaning towards LINQ are mainly talking about EASE of DEVELOPMENT which is more or less connected to poor quality of coding or laziness in coding. I am like that only.
Some advantages or Linq, I read here as , easy to test, easy to debug etc, but these are no where connected to Final output or end user. This is always going cause the trouble the end user on performance. Whats the point loading many things in memory and then applying filters on in using LINQ?
Again TypeSafety, is caution that "we are careful to avoid wrong typecasting" which again poor quality we are trying to improve by using linq. Even in that case, if anything in database changes, e.g. size of String column, then linq needs to be re-compiled and would not be typesafe without that .. I tried.
Although, we found is good, sweet, interesting etc while working with LINQ, it has shear disadvantage of making developer lazy :) and it is proved 1000 times that it is bad (may be worst) on performance compared to Stored Procs.
Stop being lazy. I am trying hard. :)
For simple CRUD operations with a single data access point, I would say go for LINQ if you feel comfortable with the syntax. For more complicated logic I think sprocs are more efficiant performance-wise if you are good at T-SQL and its more advanced operations. You also have the help from Tuning Advisor, SQL Server Profiler, debugging your queries from SSMS etc.
The outcome can be summarized as
LinqToSql for small sites, and prototypes. It really saves time for Prototyping.
Sps : Universal. I can fine tune my queries and always check ActualExecutionPlan / EstimatedExecutionPlan.
Create PROCEDURE userInfoProcedure
-- Add the parameters for the stored procedure here
#FirstName varchar,
#LastName varchar
AS
BEGIN
SET NOCOUNT ON;
-- Insert statements for procedure here
SELECT FirstName , LastName,Age from UserInfo where FirstName=#FirstName
and LastName=#FirstName
END
GO
http://www.totaldotnet.com/Article/ShowArticle121_StoreProcBasic.aspx
Stored procedure makes testing easier and you can change the query without touching the application code. Also with linq, getting a data does not mean its the right data. And testing the correctness of the data means running the application but with stored procedure it's easy to test without touching the application.
Both LINQ and SQL have their places. Both have their disadvantages and advantages.
Sometimes for complex data retrieval you might need stored procs. And sometimes you may want other people to use your stored proc in Sql Server Management Studio.
Linq to Entities is great for fast CRUD development.
Sure you can build an app using only one or the other. Or you can mix it up. It all comes down to your requirements. But SQL stored procs will no go away any time soon.