I know VS2010 is coming out soon and that usually corresponds to a update of the express versions
does anyone know if they are going to make a separate F# express suite?
From this page:
Don says: Our current plan is not to have a separate express edition, but instead to continue to provide a version of the development tools that can either be used as a standalone command line compiler, or as an add-in, initially to Visual Studio 2008.
UPDATE
Today a new release of F# includes an installer into the VS2010 integrated shell. So you can have a 'free' VS2010 experience of F# now.
You can install Visual Studio 2008 Shell and install F# add-in on top of it (which makes it effectively free). I can't see a need for an express edition.
They say It will come with VS2010:
http://cs.hubfs.net/blogs/f_team/archive/2009/05/20/10398.aspx
The compiler is free (as in beer) so you're only lacking an editor.
Mehrdad is of course correct that the VS shell can be installed for free and then you just install the free F#. And he's correct again that to get both C# Express and VB Express on one machine is two separate installs.
So for the stack-overflow types, really there is no need for F# Express.
But consider a high-school, community-college or university setting. It's easier for the instructor, and easier for all the students to visit one site (the future 2010 Express edition site) and click on install F# Express. One URL for the instructors to document in class handouts, one place to go per student, then one install operation per student. And no instructor or student has to worry "Should I install integrated mode VS shell or isolated mode VS shell?"
Again, there's no issue here for stack-overflow people. And it won't be an issue in the classrooms until instructors want to put F# into their classrooms.
But there is a bit of chicken/egg here. If an F# Express edition exists before there is much demand in the classrooms, that removes a hurdle, which means classroom demand could take off sooner. Maybe a lot sooner.
Related
I am the sole .net developer for a small company. My projects span many .net technologies including WinForms, WPF, SQL, XNA, Linq, WCF, WTF?, and others.
I struggle staying on top of all these projects so I'm looking to make my life easier with the release of VS2010. Without a mentor I rely heavily on StackOverflow and whatever else Google comes up with. Should I convince my company to get an edition with an MSDN subscription? Is it one of those things where once you have it, you can't imagine life without it?
What about the source control that comes with VS2010, do you all find it better than an SVN server?
We're looking to hire another programmer this year, would I be best off getting a Team edition of VS2010 to be best prepared for that hire?
Thanks!
If you want "Intellitrace" (aka "historical debugging") you'll need Ultimate.
Similarly Premium and Professional incrementally have fewer features. Any other these, or some combination could be the deciding factor. There is a comparison on the product pages.
Also, consider the value of an MSDN Subscription, getting you access to OSs, servers and tools for development and test (and one instance of Office for general use).
Even as a sole developer you should still be using source control (unless it is VSS :-)), whether SVN, GIT, TFS, ... all the paid editions will give you integration. ALM (application lifecycle management) like TFS will do source code control (SCM or VCS) as well as work item tracking (defects, feastrues) and much more. VS paid editions + MSDN include TFS (and you can run it on a Workstation -- server OS only no longer).
In my opinion if you are being employed professionally as a developer in the MS platform, VS Pro + MSDN is a minimum (otherwise ask yourself about the standard of employment), and really it should be VS Ultimate + MSDN. Compare the cost of employing you with the cost of the subscription (especially once on a VL program -- and you only need a single MSDN subscription to qualify for VL).
Visual Studio is a great product and I use it daily. Our level of MSDN subscription is Premium. This opens most of the doors in the MSDN library and I can't say I'm missing Ultimate. When Visual Studio was still RC and Beta we were developing in it (Ultimate) and things like IntelliTrace were nice to have features but were definitely not make or break.
I would advise against getting Visual Studio Premium because it is lacking in some of the features that I use extensively such as Code Coverage and static code analysis.
I'd have to say I can't imagine life without an MSDN subscription. It would be impossible to develop (and test) on the range of platforms necessary.
As for the source repositories we have been using TFS 2010 for the last few months and found that the seamless integration with Visual Studio is the huge selling point. The ability to check-in and out is only one aspect of the system. The ability to create build definitions, view build history and manage work items, all through the IDE, saves so much time.
If price becomes a problem there are always alternatives to Microsoft. If you want to use SVN there are SVN plugins such as VisualSVN and ankhsvn. You could then use something like CruiseControl.Net for builds.
Working as a single developer or in a small team I've usually found that any version of VS (except for Express) is ok, the Ultimate version do have some interesting things, but not anything essential for many developers.
I'd suggest that you (or your boss) look at the Microsoft Action Pack. They've got a new one for developers where you'll get 3 VS Pro licenses plus a bunch of OS and Server licenses (some of them only for development but some of them are valid for any employee I think).
In England it seems to be about £290 per year with the 15% discount that's on right now, so very cheap for what you get. There are some requirements, but if you develop software using MS Software you probably have a fairly high chance of qualifying:
https://partner.microsoft.com/40132997
For those with experience of VS2008 and VS2010. Are there any areas in which you prefered 2008? Any annoyances with the upgrade?
Any reasons not to upgrade?
I'm coming at this from a Web Dev point of view.
Thanks
I think it depend principally of how you use VS.
If your goal is to continue to use Windows Form without Linq (some people stay with VB6...), VS 2010 don't seems to be a good investment...
But if you use, or plan to use WPF and co., VS 2010 seems to be a good investment for me !
So, i think it's interesting to ask yourself : "Any reason NOT to upgrade to WPF and Linq ?"
About your the fear of change like Office 2003 -> Office 2007
Yes, me too, i feel "dropped to my grandma's level"...
But i feel like that too with the change Windows Form -> WPF.
It's good for me : it's not with the improvement of the candle the the bulb was invented !
Office 2007 is for me a great improvement for the user interface...
But it's just my point of vue.
The main reason to upgrade to Visual Studio 2010 is the .NET Framework's new version 4.0, and all the accompanying tools you can use.
If you don't need this new version now, you can delay the upgrade: that's a reason.
But sooner or later, because we all know that we can't stay behind, we'll have to step forward... This is why all of us are using Visual Studio 2008 instead of Visual Studio 6.0 and build software for Windows 7 instead of Windows 98...
If you're in a team, one person upgrading forces all of your developers to have to upgrade as the Solution files and Project files will be marked as being 2010 format and VS2008 won't read them. One of our developers checked in a project using a 2010 beta and now we can't work on it as we didn't buy 2010 yet :(
I suggest you get VS2010 Express (when it's around) and experiment with it as far as performance goes. It's not quite the same as the full version, but close enough to spot big problems I should think.
I got started with F# back in the day (before VS2010 beta); at the time, if I remember correctly, there was not an Express version of F#, but one could use the VS Shell (I think that was the name) and then install F# on top of it.
What's the current state of affairs? I've read out there that there's no 2010 Express version of F#; is there a 2010 Shell that one can download and install F# latest on top of? If not, what's the best way (if any) to code in F# 2010 for free?
I'm aware that asking for free stuff is A LOT to ask for. But this was possible in VS2008 and I'm wondering if it's also possible in VS2010.
Thanks!
PS - I believe (not sure though) that VS2010 beta can be downloaded for free; the problem with that is that when the final release comes out, one will have to pay for a license. For a guy who codes for fun like myself it doesn't make much sense to buy the full version if I can get the very basic features for free...
See
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/734525/getting-started-with-f
Basically right now you can use the free VS2008 integrated shell along with the F# CTP, or use the VS2010RC (which is free as a Beta).
(I don't know if there is a VS2010 shell published yet, and I don't know if the F# CTP works with it; for the moment, your best long-term-free strategy is to use 2008.)
I think you can also use SharpDevelop with F#:
http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Features.aspx
If you mean visual F# the best tool is Visual Studio 2010 RC:
Check out these links :
Creating Your First F# Program with Visual Studio
Using Visual F# to Create, Debug, and Deploy an Application
**[Update]**Check out this link too:Features of the Visual Studio 2010 Release of Visual F#
Friend of mine just established own coding company. They wanted create professional application written in .NET.
Now he on the stage buying software. We have discussed what VS version is absolutely minimum for this purposes.
There are lot of different version Professional / Team Suite / Team Developer ...
I wonder what you recommend?
Ideally: less (possible) cost but not short-sightedness? Would be possible base on only VS Professional Edition?
I forgot to add that friend's company is partially refunded by EU. So it would be better to him spend more money at start then pay for upgrade in future. So, looking rather for target solution.
We have looked at comparison matrix obviously. We couldn't find strong arguments for "Team" edition. Believe most of "Team" features can be supplemented by 3rd parity tools (nUnit, Subversion, Resharper) what he used to use anyway...
If VS Professional would be selected - GDR will be the one think we noticed really missing in that approach.
Definitely check out Microsoft BizSpark. For next to nothing Microsoft will provide a software startup with Visual Studio, SQL Server, and other dev tools. I would also say that the edition doesn't matter as much as what comes with it. Look at the feature matrices of the various VS packages and figure out what you need. You can always upgrade later. I've done a lot of contract work with VS Express and there are no licensing restrictions on what you do with the software you build. Start small, and buy as necessary.
I suggest a look at the Visual Studio Editions comparison sheet and just check what you need. Note that from a technical perspective, you are not locked if you choose to start with a smaller edition.
At least Pro - given the description above you want to look at the BizSpark programme. If you don't/can't go down that route then you should be looking at an MSDN sub to at least the VS Pro level.
I would start with the Express Editions and upgrade to another edition if you miss functionallity (e.g. Add-Ins like Resharper; they cannot be used in the express edition). Upgrading is no problem since you can use your projects in all editions.
I have been using Visual Studio Express versions. I used to use the full Pro VS 2005. I can't figure out what I am missing with the Express version. What benefits will I get if I buy the full version of VS?
Here you go. This link is vs2005 specific rather than the more-recent 2008, but that's the version you asked about.
Some highlights:
No Mobile Device support
No Object Test Bench
No Extensions
No built-in source control support (they should really change this)
No remote debugging
No Office Development support
No 64-bit compiler support
No Visual Studio Package support
No profiler
No SQL Server debugging integration
Limited deployment options
This list is actually quite lengthy, but with the notable exception of source control they are mostly things you might be able to do without as a single developer, if you really have to. Even the source control can be handled by a file-system-only tool like Tortoise.
Obviously if you're building something like a smart phone app or VS extension it's a non-starter, so you'll need to evaluate what you're really doing. Some of the other missing features like object test bench or the profiler can be partially replaced by third-party tools.
Here's a link to a downloadable Visual Studio 2008 Product Comparison Guide from Microsoft.
The full version of Visual studio supports some extra features and tools.
One of the big differences is more debugging options (You can specify break conditions for debugging, unlike the express version). That feature alone is probably worth it.
You can also install 3rd party addons to add extra featues.
No Resharper.
also, you can add addins like VisualSVN and Resharper into pro. You can't into express.
Matze might be right - MS needs the money - 5K people layed off today, and only 4.7b profit! :(
Depends on what you do. Look at the product matrix to see what features you gain with higher SKUs. Testing, Smart Devices, etc may or may not be relevant for you.
This really just requires a bit of Googling.
You can view a comparison of the paid versions here and an overview of the Express versions here
Have a look at this:
http://blogshare.members.winisp.net/docs/VisualStudio2008-ProductComparison-v1.02-Revisions.xps
If you are doign any sort of professional development with Visual Studio you should buy the Standard edition at a bare minimum. Without it you will loose Source Control integration which IMHO is vital absolute must no questions asked must have for professional development.
I used VS2003 for a while, and am currently using VS2008 C# Express.
Personally, I miss the ability to set a conditional breakpoint instead of simply breaking when a line is hit, and the Threads window.
Support for code version systems is a feature that is real essential.
And Microsoft needs your money to go on implementing new, hot stuff.