I'm fumbling around a bit with WebSockets, and was pretty pleased with how easy it was to get a Tornado server running that does basic websocket connections. I've never used Tornado before today, and while I like what I've seen there's a few questions that I have regarding it's use.
Primarily, I'm using WebSockets so that I can have low-overhead communications between two or more client machines. (For the purposes of conversation let's just say it's a chat client) Obviously I can connect into the server from multiple machines, and they can all push messages to the server and the server can respond, which is great! But that's not too much better than your standard AJAX requests. If I have a persistent connection I want to be able to push data to the clients as well. The simplest possible scenario is user 1 posts a message to the server and upon receiving it the server immediately pushes it to user 2.
So what would be a good way to accomplish that? As far as I can see in Tornado there's no way to communicate between connections other than placing the message in a datastore somewhere and having all the other connections poll for new info. That strikes me as terribly clunky though, because all you're really doing at that point is moving the polling process from the client to the server.
Of course, I may be barking up the wrong tree entirely here. It's certainly plausible that Tornado simply isn't the right tool for this job, and if that's the case I'd be happy to hear suggestions for alternatives!
Here is a chat server using tornado, WebSockets and redis: https://gist.github.com/pelletier/532067 (Updated: link fixed, thanks #SamidhT)
Though the answer has already been accepted: Using a different service still seems very inefficient to me. Why don't you just go with shared memory + conditional variables / semaphores? You sound like you got a standard Consumer-Producer problem
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I'm having a play around with websockets and I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around some stuff. Specifically, being able to send a whole bunch of subscribers different data without using a stupid amount of resources.
For example, if you had some sort of twitter like service, how would you send all followers of a person a newly posted tweet that they have made (and do the same for the other hundreds of people doing the same). It just seems that handling that many separate people is a bit absurd.
Can someone talk me through how you would go about treating each client individually? Please tell me if I have the whole idea of websockets wrong.
Thanks in advance!
P.S. for reference, I'm probably going to play around using either node or clojure (with aleph)
Use an established messaging protocol and broker on top of websockets.
It seems you are looking at websockets at the application layer when it is more of a network protocol. A variety of messaging APIs exists (such as JMS) with open source message brokers that are designed to do the complex and scalable message routing.
I thought about getting rid of all client-side Ajax calls (jQuery) and instead use a permanent socket connection (Socket.IO).
Therefore I would use event listeners/emitters client-side and server-side.
Ex. a click event is triggered by user in the browser, client-side emitter pushes the event through socket connection to server. Server-side listener reacts on incoming event, and pushes "done" event back to client. Client's listener reacts on incoming event by fading in DIV element.
Does that make sense at all?
Pros & cons?
There is a lot of common misinformation in this thread that is very inaccurate.
TL/DR;
WebSocket replaces HTTP for applications! It was designed by Google with the help of Microsoft and many other leading companies. All browsers support it. There are no cons.
SocketIO is built on top of the WebSocket protocol (RFC 6455). It was designed to replace AJAX entirely. It does not have scalability issues what-so-ever. It works faster than AJAX while consuming an order of magnitude fewer resources.
AJAX is 10 years old and is built on top of a single JavaScript XMLHTTPRequest function that was added to allow callbacks to servers without reloading the entire page.
In other words, AJAX is a document protocol (HTTP) with a single JavaScript function.
In contrast, WebSocket is a application protocol that was designed to replace HTTP entirely. When you upgrade an HTTP connection (by requesting WebSocket protocol), you enable two-way full duplex communication with the server and no protocol handshaking is involved what so ever. With AJAX, you either must enable keep-alive (which is the same as SocketIO, only older protocol) or, force new HTTP handshakes, which bog down the server, every time you make an AJAX request.
A SocketIO server running on top of Node can handle 100,000 concurrent connections in keep-alive mode using only 4gb of ram and a single CPU, and this limit is caused by the V8 garbage collection engine, not the protocol. You will never, ever achieve this with AJAX, even in your wildest dreams.
Why SocketIO so much faster and consumes so much fewer resources
The main reasons for this is again, WebSocket was designed for applications, and AJAX is a work-around to enable applications on top of a document protocol.
If you dive into the HTTP protocol, and use MVC frameworks, you'll see a single AJAX request will actually transmit 700-900 bytes of protocol load just to AJAX to a URL (without any of your own payload). In striking contrast, WebSocket uses about 10 bytes, or about 70x less data to talk with the server.
Since SocketIO maintains an open connection, there's no handshake, and server response time is limited to round-trip or ping time to the server itself.
There is misinformation that a socket connection is a port connection; it is not. A socket connection is just an entry in a table. Very few resources are consumed, and a single server can provide 1,000,000+ WebSocket connections. An AWS XXL server can and does host 1,000,000+ SocketIO connections.
An AJAX connection will gzip/deflate the entire HTTP headers, decode the headers, encode the headers, and spin up a HTTP server thread to process the request, again, because this is a document protocol; the server was designed to spit out documents a single time.
In contrast, WebSocket simply stores an entry in a table for a connection, approximately 40-80 bytes. That's literally it. No polling occurs, at all.
WebSocket was designed to scale.
As far as SocketIO being messy... This is not the case at all. AJAX is messy, you need promise/response.
With SocketIO, you simply have emitters and receivers; they don't even need to know about each-other; no promise system is needed:
To request a list of users you simply send the server a message...
socket.emit("giveMeTheUsers");
When the server is ready, it will send you back another message. Tada, you're done. So, to process a list of users you simply say what to do when you get a response you're looking for...
socket.on("HereAreTheUsers", showUsers(data) );
That's it. Where is the mess? Well, there is none :) Separation of concerns? Done for you. Locking the client so they know they have to wait? They don't have to wait :) You could get a new list of users whenever... The server could even play back any UI command this way... Clients can connect to each other without even using a server with WebRTC...
Chat system in SocketIO? 10 lines of code. Real-time video conferencing? 80 lines of code Yes... Luke... Join me. use the right protocol for the job... If you're writing an app... use an app protocol.
I think the problem and confusion here is coming from people that are used to using AJAX and thinking they need all the extra promise protocol on the client and a REST API on the back end... Well you don't. :) It's not needed anymore :)
yes, you read that right... a REST API is not needed anymore when you decide to switch to WebSocket. REST is actually outdated. if you write a desktop app, do you communicate with the dialog with REST? No :) That's pretty dumb.
SocketIO, utilizing WebSocket does the same thing for you... you can start to think of the client-side as simple the dialog for your app. You no longer need REST, at all.
In fact, if you try to use REST while using WebSocket, it's just as silly as using REST as the communication protocol for a desktop dialog... there is absolutely no point, at all.
What's that you say Timmy? What about other apps that want to use your app? You should give them access to REST? Timmy... WebSocket has been out for 4 years... Just have them connect to your app using WebSocket, and let them request the messages using that protocol... it will consume 50x fewer resources, be much faster, and 10x easier to develop... Why support the past when you're creating the future?
Sure, there are use cases for REST, but they are all for older and outdated systems... Most people just don't know it yet.
UPDATE:
A LOT of people have been asking me recently how can they start writing an app in 2018 (and now soon 2019) using WebSockets, that the barrier seems really high, that once they play with Socket.IO they don't know where else to turn or what to learn.
Fortunately the last 3 years have been very kind to WebSockets...
There are now 3 major frameworks that support BOTH REST and WebSocket, and even IoT protocols or other minimal/speedy protocols like ZeroMQ, and you don't have to worry about any of it; you just get support for it out of the box.
Note: Although Meteor is by far the most popular, I am leaving it out because although they are a very, very well-funded WebSocket framework, anyone who has coded with Meteor for a few years will tell you, it's an internal mess and a nightmare to scale. Sort of like WordPress is to PHP, it is there, it is popular, but it is not very well made. It's not well-thought out, and it will soon die. Sorry Meteor folks, but check out these 3 other projects compared to Meteor, and you will throw Meteor away the same day :)
With all of the below frameworks, you write your service once, and you get both REST and WebSocket support. What's more, it's a single line of config code to swap between almost any backend database.
Feathers Easiest to use, works the same on the front and backend, and supports most features, Feathers is a collection of light-weight wrappers for existing tools like express. Using awesome tools like feathers-vuex, you can create immutable services that are fully mockable, support REST, WebSocket and other protocols (using Primus), and get free full CRUD operations, including search and pagination, without a single line of code (just some config). Also works really great with generated data like json-schema-faker so you can not only fully mock things, you can mock it with random yet valid data. You can wire up an app to support type-ahead search, create, delete and edit, with no code (just config). As some of you may know, proper code-through-config is the biggest barrier to self-modifying code. Feathers does it right, and will push you towards the front of the pack in the future of app design.
Moleculer Moleculer is unfortunately an order of magnitude better at the backend than Feathers. While feathers will work, and let you scale to infinity, feathers simply doesn't even begin to think about things like production clustering, live server consoles, fault tolerance, piping logs out of the box, or API Gateways (while I've built a production API gateway out of Feathers, Moleculer does it way, way better). Moleculer is also the fastest growing, both in popularity and new features, than any WebSocket framework.
The winning strike with Moleculer is you can use a Feathers or ActionHero front-end with a Moleculer backend, and although you lose some generators, you gain a lot of production quality.
Because of this I recommend learning Feathers on the front and backend, and once you make your first app, try switching your backend to Moleculer. Moleculer is harder to get started with, but only because it solves all the scaling problems for you, and this information can confuse newer users.
ActionHero Listed here as a viable alternative, but Feathers and Moleculer are better implementations. If anything about ActionHero doesn't Jive with you, don't use it; there are two better ways above that give you more, faster.
NOTE: API Gateways are the future, and all 3 of the above support them, but Moleculer literally gives you it out of the box. An API gateway lets you massage your client interaction, allowing caching, memoization, client-to-client messaging, blacklisting, registration, fault tolerance and all other scaling issues to be handled by a single platform component. Coupling your API Gateway with Kubernetes will let you scale to infinity with the least amount of problems possible. It is the best design method available for scalable apps.
Update for 2021:
The industry has evolved so much that you don't even need to pay attention to the protocol. GraphQL now uses WebSockets by default! Just look up how to use subscriptions, and you're done. The fastest way to handle it will occur for you.
If you use Vue, React or Angular, you're in luck, because there is a native GraphQL implementation for you! Just call your data from the server using a GraphQL subscription, and that data object will stay up to date and reactive on it's own.
GraphQL will even fall-back to REST for you when you need to use legacy systems, and subscriptions will still update using sockets. Everything is solved when you move to GraphQL.
Yes, if you thought "WTH?!?" when you heard you can simply subscribe, like with FireBase, to a server object, and it will update itself for you. Yes. That's now true. Just use a GraphQL subscription. It will use WebSockets.
Chat system? 1 line of code.
Real time video system? 1 line of code.
Video game with 10mb of open world data shared across 1m real-time users? 1 line of code. The code is just your GQL query now.
As long as you build or use the right back-end, all this realtime stuff is now done for you with GQL subscriptions. Make the switch as soon as you can and stop worrying about protocols.
Socket.IO uses persistent connection between client and server, so you will reach a maximum limit of concurrent connections depending on the resources you have on server side, while more Ajax async requests can be served with the same resources.
Socket.IO is mainly designed for realtime and bi-directional connections between client and server and in some applications there is no need to keep permanent connections. On the other hand Ajax async connections should pass the HTTP connection setup phase and send header data and all cookies with every request.
Socket.IO has been designed as a single process server and may have scalability issues depending server resources that you are bound to.
Socket.IO in not well suited for applications when you are better to cache results of client requests.
Socket.IO applications face with difficulties with SEO optimization and search engine indexing.
Socket.IO is not a standard and not equivalent to W3C Web Socket API, It uses current Web Socket API if browser supports, socket.io created by a person to resolve cross browser compatibility in real time apps and is so young, about 1 year old. Its learning curve, less developers and community resources compared with ajax/jquery, long term maintenance and less need or better options in future may be important for developer teams to make their code based on socket.io or not.
Sending one way messages and invoking callbacks to them can get very messy.
$.get('/api', sendData, returnFunction); is cleaner than
socket.emit('sendApi', sendData); socket.on('receiveApi', returnFunction);
Which is why dnode and nowjs were built on top of socket.io to make things manageable. Still event driven but without giving up callbacks.
Rather a hard to nail down question, but basically I'm wondering what the best way (and not "what's your opinion" but "which will most adequately meet the requirement i shall set forth) is to open a stream connection from a client side webpage to a server such that either can send data to the other without polling? I'm thinking the term for this is HTTP binding vs. HTTP Polling. The context here is a chat application - i'd like a streamed connection so that the browser isn't constantly pushing requests out. The client end here is KnockoutJS and jQuery. I'd like to be able to have the data pushed back and forth be JSON (or at least manipulatable by jQuery and Knockout's toJSON). The server end - not quite sure what it is going to be, but i'll probably be running on a linux server, so anything compatible with that works fine.
If there's any more details i can provide, just let me know - i'm sure i left some obvious detail out. Also, i'm aware there's probably a duplicate question on this, so if your answer is as good as closing for a dupe and putting in a link, that's great.
Thanks!
I think what you're looking for is referred to as Comet. The basic idea is to keep HTTP requests open for longer periods of time so that the server can send data to the client as it comes in, rather than the client having to continually poll the server for new data. There are multiple ways to implement it. This Wikipedia article is a good start for more info.
This MIX 2011 video discusses the long polling technique (although the suggestion in the video is that web sockets will be a better solution with future browsers).
I'm working on the design of a web app which will be using AJAX to communicate with a server on an embedded device. But for one feature, the client will need to get very frequent updates (>10 per second), as close to real time as possible, for an extended period of time. Meanwhile typical AJAX requests will need to be handled from time to time.
Some considerations unique to this project:
This data will be very small, probably no more than a single numeric value.
There will only be 1 client connected to the server at a time, so scaling is not an issue.
The client and server will reside on the same local network, so the connection will be fast and reliable.
The app will be designed for Android devices, so we can take advantage of any platform-specific browser features.
The backend will most likely be implemented in Python using WSGI on Apache or lighttpd, but that is still open for discussion.
I'm looking into Comet techniques including XHL long polling and hidden iframe but I'm pretty new to web development and I don't know what kind of performance we can expect. The server shouldn't have any problem preparing the data, it's just a matter of pushing it out to the client as quickly as possible. Is 10 updates per second an unreasonable expectation for any of the Comet techniques, or even regular AJAX polling? Or is there another method you would suggest?
I realize this is ultimately going to take some prototyping, but if someone can give me a ball-park estimate or better yet specific technologies (client and server side) that would provide the best performance in this case, that would be a great help.
You may want to consider WebSockets. That way you wouldn't have to poll, you would receive data directly from your server. I'm not sure what server implementations are available at this point since it's still a pretty new technology, but I found a blog post about a library for WebSockets on Android:
http://anismiles.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/websocket-support-in-android%E2%80%99s-phonegap-apps/
For a Python back end, you might want to look into Twisted. I would also recommend the WebSocket approach, but failing that, and since you seem to be focused on a browser client, I would default to HTTP Streaming rather than polling or long-polls. This jQuery Plugin implements an http streaming Ajax client and claims specifically to support Twisted.
I am not sure if this would be helpful at all but you may want to try Comet style ajax
http://ajaxian.com/archives/comet-a-new-approach-to-ajax-applications
Of course I am aware of Ajax, but the problem with Ajax is that the browser should poll the server frequently to find whether there is new data. This increases server load.
Is there any better method (even using Ajax) other than polling the server frequently?
Yes, what you're looking for is COMET http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(programming). Other good Google terms to search for are AJAX-push and reverse-ajax.
Yes, it's called Reverse Ajax or Comet. Comet is basically an umbrella term for different ways of opening long-lived HTTP requests in order to push data in real-time to a web browser. I'd recommend StreamHub Push Server, they have some cool demos and it's much easier to get started with than any of the other servers. Check out the Getting Started with Comet and StreamHub Tutorial for a quick intro. You can use the Community Edition which is available to download for free but is limited to 20 concurrent users. The commercial version is well worth it for the support alone plus you get SSL and Desktop .NET & Java client adapters. Help is available via the Google Group, there's a good bunch of tutorials on the net and there's a GWT Comet adapter too.
Nowadays you should use WebSockets.
This is 2011 standard that allows to initiate connections with HTTP and then upgrade them to two-directional client-server message-based communication.
You can easily initiate the connection from javascript:
var ws = new WebSocket("ws://your.domain.com/somePathIfYouNeed?args=any");
ws.onmessage = function (evt)
{
var message = evt.data;
//decode message (with JSON or something) and do the needed
};
The sever-side handling depend on your tenchnology stack.
Look into Comet (a spoof on the fact that Ajax is a cleaning agent and so is Comet) which is basically "reverse Ajax." Be aware that this requires a long-lived server connection for each user to receive notifications so be aware of the performance implications when writing your app.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(programming)
Comet is definitely what you want. Depending on your language/framework requirements, there are different server libraries available. For example, WebSync is an IIS-integrated comet server for ASP.NET/C#/IIS developers, and there are a bunch of other standalone servers as well if you need tighter integration with other languages.
I would strongly suggest to invest some time on Comet, but I dont know an actual implementation or library you could use.
For an sort of "callcenter control panel" of a web app that involved updating agent and call-queue status for a live Callcenter we developed an in-house solution that works, but is far away from a library you could use.
What we did was to implement a small service on the server that talks to the phone-system, waits for new events and maintains a photograph of the situation. This service provides a small webserver.
Our web-clients connects over HTTP to this webserver and ask for the last photo (coded in XML), displays it and then goes again, asking for the new photo. The webserver at this point can:
Return the new photo, if there is one
Block the client for some seconds (30 in our setup) waiting for some event to ocurr and change the photograph. If no event was generated at that point, it returns the same photo, only to allow the connection to stay alive and not timeout the client.
This way, when clients polls, it get a response in 0 to 30 seconds max. If a new event was already generated it gets it immediately), otherwise it blocks until new event is generated.
It's basically polling, but it somewhat smart polling to not overheat the webserver. If Comet is not your answer, I'm sure this could be implemented using the same idea but using more extensively AJAX or coding in JSON for better results. This was designed pre-AJAX era, so there are lots of room for improvement.
If someone can provide a actual lightweight implementation of this, great!
An interesting alternative to Comet is to use sockets in Flash.
Yet another, standard, way is SSE (Server-Sent Events, also known as EventSource, after the JavaScript object).
Comet was actually coined by Alex Russell from Dojo Toolkit ( http://www.dojotoolkit.org ). Here is a link to more infomration http://cometdproject.dojotoolkit.org/
There are other methods. Not sure if they are "better" in your situation. You could have a Java applet that connects to the server on page load and waits for stuff to be sent by the server. It would be a quite a bit slower on start-up, but would allow the browser to receive data from the server on an infrequent basis, without polling.
You can use a Flash/Flex application on the client with BlazeDS or LiveCycle on the server side. Data can be pushed to the client using an RTMP connection. Be aware that RTMP uses a non standard port. But you can easily fall back to polling if the port is blocked.
It's possible to achive what you're aiming at through the use of persistent http connections.
Check out the Comet article over at wikipedia, that's a good place to start.
You're not providing much info but if you're looking at building some kind of event-driven site (a'la digg spy) or something along the lines of that you'll probably be looking at implementing a hidden IFRAME that connects to a url where the connection never closes and then you'll push script-tags from the server to the client in order to perform the updates.
Might be worth checking out Meteor Server which is a web server designed for COMET. Nice demo and it also is used by twitterfall.
Once a connection is opened to the server it can be kept open and the server can Push content a long while ago I did with using multipart/x-mixed-replace but this didn't work in IE.
I think you can do clever stuff with polling that makes it work more like push by not sending content unchanged headers but leaving the connection open but I've never done this.
You could try out our Comet Component - though it's extremely experimental...!
please check this library https://github.com/SignalR/SignalR to know how to push data to clients dynamically as it becomes available
You can also look into Java Pushlets if you are using jsp pages.
Might want to look at ReverseHTTP also.