In our company, we have two main development environment. One uses VS2010 for C# and C++ development, the other uses Code Composer from TI (not the newest Eclipse based, and no, I cannot upgrade it right now).
Some of the C++ code is shared between VS solution and the embedded solution.
I'm in the process of upgrading our VSS to TFS, and so far everything is a bliss, but it is going to be a hard sell telling my EE engineers that they need to install VS2010 to perform source control.
I'm installing the TFS 2010 Power Tools right now, but the bad reviews scare me.
So, what's the best way to perform this integration?
You can get the engineers licensed with TFS and then use the explorer to have them check in and out, if Visual Studio scariness is the main issue. The explorer is very lightweight compared to Visual Studio.
As for the power pack, it is an installation on top of VS or the Explorer, unless you are talkinga bout TFPT.exe, which is a command line tool to be able to work with source code. I would not head that way, although engineers might be brainiac enought to love the DOS/UNIX like syntax. :-)
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I am. And I am wondering if there is any good reason to use professional .. Also for hobbiest programming...
So far the only thing I have missed is being able open certain .sln files that use testing projects and more advanced things.. but that not that big of a deal.. though I do miss testing
I was first surprised that the small consulting company I am working at does not use a paid edition of VS2010 (and SVN instead of TFS and Open Office instead of MS Office)
Anyone else working at a place like this? With the new Platform installer I like how I can get a new machine running and easily check and install what I need for free so that makes it even easier.
There's one good reason: Microsoft does not allow 3rd party extensibility in Express. Plug-ins like ReSharper add significant value to Visual Studio. I have trouble imagining doing professional work in a timely manner without them.
I come from a strong Java background and in recent years have been also developing in C#.
What I can never understand is how far behind (Personal Opinion) the Visual Studio IDE's are in compared with Intelli-J IDEA and Eclipse (Java).
There have been improvements by Microsoft from VS 2005 to VS 2008, but I feel they are not quite there in terms of taking the development experience to the next level.
What I want to know is, is VS 2010 any different?
Why is it that the tools and syntax editors are so much more "evolved" in the Java IDE's.
Just to name a few:
Code Completion (Much more advance in Java IDE's)
Ant Integration (Eclipse and IDEA) vs Visual Studio Build Events
Lack of Code Repository integration in VS (Subversion and CVS) out of the box.
Lack of Advance Re-factoring Tools in Visual Studio.
Thanks.
A few points…
People tend to like what they know.
It is quicker to get up-to-speed in C# as the IDE and most of the tools / docs come from a single source.
In the Java world you have a lot more chooses, this is great for expert that spend times learning about them all, but does also lead to its own problems.
Adding ReSharper or Refactor to Visual Studio may give you what you want.
The Visual Studio debugging is great.
Visual Studio tries to make life easy for you by trying to find missing dlls etc and then storing where they are in the registry. This may be great for a 1 man project, but can often lead to build problems across developer’s machines if you are not careful. In the Java world you have to edit more config file by hand, but at least you can put these files under source code control.
There is not a small command line tool that works well on a build server that will build all types of Visual Studio projects. However in day to day usage you don’t need to learn how to use command tools, as Visual Studio hides them form you.
I think these days most programmers
are just happier with the IDE they
know best.
Note I wrote this over 6 years ago, since then C#/.Net has got a lot more complex, with lots of open source projects. Microsoft has also open sourced a lot of the .net framework. For web and server side development I expect there is now little to choose between the Java world and the .Net world. For “smart clients” .net still have a lot to offer including the new support from cross device phone development.
For multi-threaded IO, I think c# is years ahead of Java, but that could change as C# and Java keeps learning from each other...
Visual Studio has definitely been coming on over the last few years - although many of the improvements have basically been things that Eclipse has had for ages (I haven't used IDEA myself).
You may well want to look at ReSharper, which brings more goodness to Visual Studio, along with the VS2010 Productivity PowerTools.
Also, have a look at Scott Guthrie's blog series about improvements in VS2010. Lots of goodies in there.
All tools have their strengths and weaknesses - these days I'm about as happy in Visual Studio as in Eclipse... although I'm much happier writing C# than Java :) One area where Visual Studio really shines is debugging though... I find things like the VS Watch window to be much better than Eclipse's equivalent.
Visual studio 2017 is still far far behind Intellij IDEA. I'm using both and i can say that even VS2017 with ReSharper is not comparable with IDEA.
Biggest problem for me is that VS still doesn't offer usable hot reload debugging experience. I'm crying every time i have to rebuild my .NET MVC project (it is +- fast, but IIS Express load time ~ 15s EVERY time you make even the smallest change in your code).
If you want to argue with "Edit and continue" so so hotreload function - it is absolutely useless, you can't do almost any change in code without rebuilding (and everytime you have to manually break code and close opened tab with useless information).
So i'm really looking forward for full version of IntelliJ Rider bringing all super user friendly possibilities of IntelliJ IDEA to the .NET world!
I don't agree with you. I think VS is much more easy to use.
For example, when i need to create a web application. I open VS and create a new project (Web Application). After the project created, i press f5 and tadda!...
But if want to create my web application with Java, i need to install a server or some frameworks. Still i don't know how can i create a web application?
Or, Windows Application.
At VS, you don't need do any thing to create a windows based application like web application. but if i want to create windows based application with Java, i had to do something.
I think VS IDE is more user friendly than Java IDE's.
For those with experience of VS2008 and VS2010. Are there any areas in which you prefered 2008? Any annoyances with the upgrade?
Any reasons not to upgrade?
I'm coming at this from a Web Dev point of view.
Thanks
I think it depend principally of how you use VS.
If your goal is to continue to use Windows Form without Linq (some people stay with VB6...), VS 2010 don't seems to be a good investment...
But if you use, or plan to use WPF and co., VS 2010 seems to be a good investment for me !
So, i think it's interesting to ask yourself : "Any reason NOT to upgrade to WPF and Linq ?"
About your the fear of change like Office 2003 -> Office 2007
Yes, me too, i feel "dropped to my grandma's level"...
But i feel like that too with the change Windows Form -> WPF.
It's good for me : it's not with the improvement of the candle the the bulb was invented !
Office 2007 is for me a great improvement for the user interface...
But it's just my point of vue.
The main reason to upgrade to Visual Studio 2010 is the .NET Framework's new version 4.0, and all the accompanying tools you can use.
If you don't need this new version now, you can delay the upgrade: that's a reason.
But sooner or later, because we all know that we can't stay behind, we'll have to step forward... This is why all of us are using Visual Studio 2008 instead of Visual Studio 6.0 and build software for Windows 7 instead of Windows 98...
If you're in a team, one person upgrading forces all of your developers to have to upgrade as the Solution files and Project files will be marked as being 2010 format and VS2008 won't read them. One of our developers checked in a project using a 2010 beta and now we can't work on it as we didn't buy 2010 yet :(
I suggest you get VS2010 Express (when it's around) and experiment with it as far as performance goes. It's not quite the same as the full version, but close enough to spot big problems I should think.
Basically what the title says. I am looking to install the Visual Studio 2010 Beta for compiling personal C++ projects. I haven't made it through the tutorial for setting things up, but do I need the Server part of the program if I don't plan on doing any team projects?
Thanks.
Edit: Well it looks like I can't install the Team Foundation Server anyways without downloading a bunch of other crap. Will the rest of it install without it?
Team Foundation Server is for source control, data collection, reporting, and project tracking. To connect to the server you need the Team Explorer extension installed on your Visual Studio and get a client access license.
I guess you don't need to connect to a server to develop personal projects. For a comparison of Visual C++ 2010 editions, see http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hs24szh9(VS.100).aspx.
You don't need TFS 2010 for your personal projects.
1) No, you don't need it.
Unless you really want all the TFS features, you'll be installing masses of stuff for no real gain. Having said that, if you want to use source control, profiling, code analysis and those sort of handy things, it would be one way to achieve this - though you'd probably still be better off with a couple of specific third party tools than the whole TFS install if you only want a few of these tools.
2) No, you don't need to install all the bits to make it work.
Unless something has changed a lot with 2010, the basic VSTS install is more or less the same as the Pro version of VS - and then you install the Team Explorer on top to gain the TFS specific client-side extensions.
In fact, you can go much further by doing a custom install and turning off a lot of stuff that you don't want (VS includes a load of stuff for targetting platforms you will probably never see with languages you may not have even heard of :-). That said, unless disk space is a major concern, it's easier and safer to just go for a standard install, because that is always going to be the best tested configuration - once you start removing bits there is a tendency for odd little things to stop working properly.
Our company is considering using the Visual Studio Shell for one of our products.
Does anyone have any experience using it? Was it easy to work with? Did it save time? Are there any things that you weren't able to get it to do? Have you shipped anything with it?
A couple of points regarding the Isolated shell.
As you might know, there are two considerations when you use shell - Isolated Mode and Integrated Mode. (Read more from MSDN)
Isolated Shell can be used by organizations, to build applications that run side by side with other editions of Visual Studio.
Here are some points we learned,
trying to use shell for some of our
applications.
If you are planning to use Isolated
shell, you can't use Microsoft
Language Packages like C# and VB.NET
inside that.
Creating a package for your shell is
much like creating any other VS
Package.
You don't have support for Team
Explorer and VS Built in Source
Control access, in Isolated Shell
(See this post from Vin)
Though not directly related - If you are using VS SDK 1.1 to develop your packages - remember that the managed package framework is no longer available with the default distribution. So don't get surprised if your old packages can't load MPF files after moving to SDK 1.1. It has got moved to Codeplex as a separate download.
I played around a bit with it a couple of weeks ago, like every thing there is going to be a learn curve but if you study the examples a bit and have a look at a project on codeplex called Storyboard designer. I'm sure that you could pick it up, I found it very hard to find other examples on the net but I wasn't looking very hard.
I would say if you think that the shell can give you want you need I would go for it, it is a very handy interface to work with and if your targeting developers it is also a common interface for them, so it will feel natural.
I typically use Visual Studio Community on my PC for developing business intelligence solutions (databases, SSIS, SSAS, SSRS), then deploying to the server. A few weeks ago my managers requested we put Visual Studio on a server so that other developers and consultants could connect to the server and access Visual Studio.
Ultimately I installed SQL Server Data Tools (14.0.61021.0), which automatically installed Visual Studio Shell 2015. After installation, I launched Visual Studio Shell and tried doing some of the things I am used to doing in Community edition. I was able to do pretty much anything I was used to doing for BI Development.
Visual Studio Shell 2015:
Solution files with BI projects...
SSIS
Installing extensions & add-ons...
ANKHSVN for version control with SVN server
Visual Studio 2015 Color Theme Editor
Project deployment