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i have been learning laravel and truly its quite fun. but so far the projects i have been doing are just small applications with very few controller files and model. Not much to "Organize" per se. But my question is,
1# how to organize files when a project gets larger and larger?
2#is there any recommended project structure that i could follow from the start of any project so that even if in future the project grows bigger, things are modular and easy to manage with?
thanks.
Welcome to Laravel world :).
The first thing that I have to talk to you before other people: StackOverflow isn't a place for asking opinions. It's should be treated as a technical forum, and questions that you want to ask should be something that won't be leading to a discussion or different opinions from different users (check here "We prefer questions which can be answered, not just discussed", discuss). Simple rule of thumb (I might be wrong but it's my opinion about what StackOverflow is): You ask a question and you should only expect one good answer (That's why we have a "Check if question is solved" feature).
Moving forward from there, I'll answer your question:
There won't be a good answer to your question. Just like what Jeffrey Way said in one of his Laracon speech: "We don't know shit either".
We have a lot of conventions here and there, a lot of rule, but nothing is "right". Every convention has flaws, it's just that some of them are a lot better than rest of the others. So, keep learning.
There are some absolute "Must-have" skills, though, like learning Object Oriented Programming, using Composer. Learn that because it's absolute needs for a PHP programmer.
Making a scalable project is about an experience. The best answer is that you have to face one, either by finding an internship, a junior web development career, being a volunteer to a Laravel project, etc. But another answer is to learn, search "expert answer" about how to build one on Google (like https://www.sitepoint.com/horizontal-scaling-php-apps/), ask Quora. You will find lots of answers because again "We don't know shit either".
Lots of companies have a different system that others don't use. They'll use what they feel fits theirs needs. For your indie project, you'll just have to keep learning and breaking things until you'll find the one. For other companies, you'll find them knowing what they want to do and you have to do everything their way about how to make a scalable project.
Experience, learn and learn, that's the answer.
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I recently started a career in software development after graduating a couple of years ago in CS. The current project I'm on is a large ongoing project that has it's origins in the 90s with a mix of C, C++, and Java. There are multiple platforms (UNIX, WIN, etc) being supported, older technologies in use like CVS, and some dated documentation in some areas.
The extent of my software development skills stem from going to university as I've had little real world experience. I felt like I had a decent foundation in CS but I cannot but help feel slightly overwhelmed by it all. I'm excited to be part of something so huge but at the same time I feel like it's a lot of information to absorb.
My coworkers have been great people and answer a lot of questions I. My employer hired me knowing that I am entry level.
I've tried poking around the source code and examining how everything gets built but it's on a scale I've never seen before.
How do more experienced people situate themselves when joining a large ongoing project? What are some common tasks you do when getting yourself up to speed?
Good question. I haven't had your exact experience, but in cases like this I like to think, "how do you eat a whale?" The answer is (predictably) "one bite at a time." Reasonable people won't expect you to grasp the whole thing immediately, but they will want to see progress. Perhaps there are some small areas of the larger project that are not too complex, without too many dependencies. Work toward understanding one of those and you're one 'bite' (and/or 'byte') closer to expertise on the whole project.
Being familiar with all existing documentation I would try to get the big picture. Literally.
generate a TreeMap of the source code
I would use GrandPerspective on Mac or WinDirStat on Windows. It will give you some insights about the structure of the project's files (sometimes it gives some hints about the code structure). Having this, you can ask your colleagues for some of the clusters, what they do, how they relate to each other.
learn how to build the project
This is important to have it compiling all the time if you are about to do any changes. Having tests executed at the build time is always a good thing, so ask for it also. Even better if there is some kind of continuous integration server in place. If there is, look at its configuration - figure out how the build is done. If there was no CI server, but you already got the knowledge how to build the project, create such a server on your local machine, and show it to your fellows - they should fell in love with it.
browse the source code with Structure101 or similar tool
This is useful especially for Java projects. This tool does great job. That will give you more details about the code structure, and sometimes about the system architecture. This experience may be sometimes hard, you may learn from this tool that a code is basically a Big Ball of Mud ;)
look for tests, and explore them
If you will be lucky there may be some JUnit, or CPPUnit tests. This is always good to try to understand what those tests are doing. It may be a good starting point to explore the code further.
My coworkers have been great people
and answer a lot of questions I. My
employer hired me knowing that I am
entry level.
You have little to worry about, you're employer knows what you are capable of and your co-workers seem eager to help you out - to be honest most developers love explaining things to others...
From what I've seen, it take truly 6+ years to become fully knowledgeable in a language, so don't expect to become a guru within a year... and even these so called gurus end up learning something new about their language everyday.
Learning a new system (large) will always take time.... the systems were usually not built in 2 weeks but over many years, so don't expect to understand it fully yet. You'll eventually discover what each part does piece by piece.
I know how you feel, because I felt like that once...
"I took a speed reading course and read 'War and Peace' in twenty minutes. It involves Russia." (Woody Allen)
I agree on what the others said before me. You need some tools that give you an overview on the code. I personally used inFusion (http://www.intooitus.com/inFusion) because it gives also other interesting data beside structure.
The method that has worked best for me is to grab a copy from source control, with the intention of throwing this version away...
Then try and refactor the code. It is even better if you can refactor the code that you know you will be working on at a later stage.
The reason this is effective is because:
refactoring gives you a goal for you to aim towards. Whereas "playing" an "breaking" the code is great - it is unfocused.
To refactor code you really have to understand the code.
Refactored code leaves code that has less concepts to retain in memory. If you don't understand a large codebase its not because you are a graduate - its because nobody can retain more than 7 (give or take a few) concepts at a time.
If you follow correct refactoring guidelines it means you will be writing tests. Although, make sure that you will be working on the modules that you are testing as writing tests can be very time consumning (although very rewarding)
Do invest in buying this book at some point:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Refactoring-Improving-Design-Existing-Technology/dp/0201485672
But these links should get you started:
Signs that your code needs refactoring and what refacoring to use (From Refactoring - Martin Fowler)
http://industriallogic.com/papers/smellstorefactorings.pdf
A taxonomy of code smells:
http://www.soberit.hut.fi/mmantyla/BadCodeSmellsTaxonomy.htm
Good luck!!!
I agree to the first comment but I also Think that you have to learn and see the big picture in some way. You have to trace the main flow from code at least.
I was in the exact same situation several years ago when I joined a software project with 50+ ClearCase version control vobs, 5 million lines of code, and some of it dating back to the 1980's.
The first thing I did was look through every source controlled directory and made a quick summary of my best guess about what the software in that folder did and what language the code was. You can make a pretty good guess by looking at filenames and any comments or documents in those folders.
I then looked at the build scripts to see if they were readable enough to get an idea of dependencies between different parts of the code.
Finally - and I believe this was the most valuable - throw an IDE like Eclipse or NetBeans on top of the code and start reading through pieces of it. Having the ability to jump to the definition of any functions or classes using the IDE allows you to move around a massive software baseline with relative ease.
Overall, have some confidence - it is unlikely that anyone else on the project knows all of the code, so you don't need to either. Use what other people said to get a good idea of the overall project and interfaces and requirements (if they exist) and poke through the code to get an idea of the most commonly used classes and methods.
I have been developing websites for quite some time and I am not so good in designing websites? My Boss is refering me to take some lessons on it.
But I really want to stick to development rather than designing?
You don't need to be a designer. But I would highly recommend you understand the process and some of the techniques used. Having that knowledge will assist in both working with designers and providing better back ends.
I'd do the course, but make it clear to my boss that it's not what I want to do as a main job.
Answer yourself these questions:
What is your objective, the dream? developer or designer?
What are you best with?
Will I be able to justify with my design requirements?
It this common that a developer should be a designer too?
Will you be able to to concentrate on both, the ever changing trends and techs.
Having said that, I have seen such people having both skills but still they don't weigh equal in both parts.
Developer as well as designer:
Chris Coyier of css-tricks.com
Pekka
It depends on what you want to be in the future. Actually, designing and programming are two different skills. Obviously, for websites two things are both required. As a developer, if you have some basic knowledge about design, it would help you and also the designer to make the website much easier to maintain. But personally, I do not thinking you have to dive into design.
a good developer knows a lot about design, but dont have to be good at designing something.
i've seen to many developers building up a given design and making so much mistakes, because they don't see the little intricacies that are enormously important for a well designed website.
One particular design aspect I find many developers (good ones) are not necessarily extremely strong at is understanding of colors harmony. Even though it seems like easy thing to do, find the right combination of colors on a page, it is not always that easy. That course may be helpful in that regard.
I started of as a developer and then progressed into being a Developer/Designer.
You start to understand design aspects, UX aspects and the likes.
So i believe a good developer should also have a good understanding of design aspects as well
The bottom line is your boss thinks you'd benefit from a bit of immersion in design, and you probably will.
It doesn't sound like he wants you to become a designer, just get a feel for it. He's not asking for a career change.
There's always benefits in learning something new. And if your boss is backing you taking some time to do it got for it.
As a developer you should know something about usability and software ergonomics. You should know the basic structure of a website. And you should be able to implement a given design.
I think it is not the job of a developer to create a design.
Try to answer: "Why does your boss want you to improve skills in design? "
Your team is too expensive and boss is going to fire designer. He is wondering is it possible.
Your designer complains to boss that developers constantly ask him to refactor insignificant details interrupting from common tasks. So your boss wants to delegate small design decision to developers.
If it's so, I think nothing is a bad to improve design skills if your boss doesn't want you to convert to designer.
I also agree with all those people, who state: Developer and designer are two different roles.
Well, if developing is the field you are comfortable with, stick with it.
But learning is never bad. Try to gain knowledge first, after taking the classes, you can answer this question yourself
Wow, I'm actually in the exact opposite of your situation. I'm a designer just crossing the line of web development. But in my case, it was my own decision and it wasn't imposed by anyone.
It's always a plus if you have web development skills on top of design skills. I guess it holds true if you're a web developer and have design skills as well.
It never hurts to learn the basic, like others have mentioned, but keep in mind to stick on what you're good at and master it. Its better to be a master of something rather than being a jack of all trades. With so much competition out there, you really have to excel at your craft.
Learn both, but master one, I'd say. I personally see myself as a developer foremost, but I do know a thing or two about design - and, more specifically, implementing it (think CSS and the like).
However, I gratuitously admit that I am not good at making a design that looks good. A functional one, maybe, but not good. You could say something like that to your boss - that yes, you are capable of learning to design, however that you will never be as good as a real designer. Likewise, a designer learning to program will never be as good as a dedicated developer.
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I've been making small scale projects for a while now. I haven't started a large project, yet, because I haven't come across anything which I needed and wasn't already accomplished by some other FOSS. Until now. I want to make a program which will allow users to interactively learn secondary languages (I'm kind of want to make it as close to Rosetta Stone as I can).
Right now I'm the only developer since I'm not sure if I'm biting of more than I can chew and don't want to waste any contributors time.
So far I've been planning how the project is going to work and setting up tools to make the project start smoothly and for it to be readily accessible for when other users are ready to contribute to it. I've set up a SourceForge account, a git repository, as well as a document which lists all the features and what the program is going to accomplish.
A basic break down is that the suite is going to be written in java, and the suite will have the ability to support many languages via their locale. The courses for learning the languages will be written in jython. Course-makers will have the ability to use pre-made jython courses to teach their course, or make their own original ones. I'm hoping this will allow for the software to teach copious languages via many mother tongues.
I'm also planning on having a repository of "released courses" which are ones which I (or people who better comprehend the language) think are top-notch courses. This will hopefully make the program seem more professional and secure to the users while allowing third party participation.
With this in mind:
Are there any fatal flaws or suggestions about my project you would like to make?
Is there anything I'm missing about making a big project in general?
Thank you for your time and effort,
Joseph Pond
You will always be biting off more than you can chew if you don't believe other people should consider your project worth their time. This is much more of a leadership point than a programming point. But seriously, work it out: is this idea something that you believe can happen even knowing that you are currently unprepared for many of the challenges that you are about to face? You've given us a rough outline. You'll be giving others a more thorough explanation, and it will soon become obvious that you've overlooked some stuff. Nobody can keep that from happening to you. Having said that, if you think that you have a good grasp of the requirements of most of the components and you believe you can thoroughly describe the requirements to others with appropriate skills, I'd say go for it.
P.S. -- If you have any mock-ups, that would make it seem like a sweet deal from a prospective developer's perspective. It sounds like the selling point is the extensibility of easily designing new courses. If that's so, give an idea of the basic structure of the Jython. When my supervisor gives me a task that I understand thoroughly, I'd rather he didn't show me how to get started or what design or implementation to use. When I have no idea what he's talking about, the roughest of sketches gives me days of a head start.
Are you also the only analyst, translator, technical writer, and tester? This sounds like a large undertaking for one person. Do you have a deadline? In my opinion you will need at least another developer and tester. Even more if you have tight deadlines.
Just find the right person who really agrees with your idea and will take the ownership.
I had been involved in several projects but I dropped out some and only worked on the one I really interested in. So, look at it in the reverse side, looking for a contributor is not easy and must find the person has the things I mentioned about. Then, you can talk about keep contact,, system... project manage..etc. If you can't find the right person, even you have a good system, you are just wasting your time and going nowhere.
Okay, a couple things. First, it's better never to do a big project. Do lots of small projects instead. If it works out that what you get at the end is a big thing, that's good.
Second, a lot of times what works best for this of thing is to think about how you can make something to make it all easier. in this case, you have two issues: making something that does the various operations needed to display and give feedback (I'm working through a Rosetta Stone course myself, they're pretty cool.)
You're really thinking about a course authoring system; you can't write all the materials for all the languages, so you have to make it easy to do the authoring.
This sounds like a job for a DSL, a domain specific language.
And it sounds like a really cool idea.
This is a broad question, so let me narrow it a bit. I am a graphic designer entering the world of web design. I'm not totally green in this field, but I know enough to know that I have a lot to learn. From friends and from posts on this site I realize there is often a harmful disconnect between design and development.
I'm getting ready to place a client log-in/password "portal" on my website. Nothing fancy, just enough to provide some sound mind for my clients and a space for secure download of imagery. I am only handling the look and feel of this one, nothing more. What potential pitfalls should I know about, on my end, to avoid making the development end hairy?
And of course any other nuggets of wisdom are appreciated too. Thanks!
Perhaps the worst mistake that many designers make when working with developers is to assume that developers aren't creative, and that we couldn't possibly have any good ideas or inputs into the design. The fallacy of this is obvious because what we do all day, every day, is create things. It's taken for granted that designers can raise bugs against developers when our code doesn't represent the design exactly, yet many designers get very touchy when we raise suggestions about how their design could be improved even in minor ways. Sometimes the suggestions may not be suitable, but occasionally you might be able to improve your design.
In addition, I have frequently found that designers under-estimate the capabilities of developers to achieve what they want, so will sometimes suggest a simpler alternative. By opening up the dialog and giving a couple of options like a minimum one and an ideal one, you might be surprised that you can have elements of the ideal one, or all of it, or even something better as you discuss what actually can be achieved (sometimes what seems hard to achieve to a designer seems easy to the dev, and vice versa, because they are different disciplines). Of course the converse is true and you might be aiming too high, so you need to find that out as well.
In summary - you're absolutely right that any disconnect between design and dev is detrimental both to morale and the final product. So talk to the devs as soon as you have initial designs, and keep a good two-way dialog open.
I am a web developer, so I'm answering this from my viewpoint. There is really no serious pitfall as long as developer and designer understand each other. One tries to make websites look as attractive as possible, while the other tries to make the look of the website as close to the design as possible.
So when I'm asked to do the impossible, (like replacing the browser's default scrollbar with an animated image of a cat) I'll just tell the designer that it can't be done, the reasons for that, and suggest possible alternatives (Flash ?). After that being said, I expect the designer to understand and cooperate with me to choose the best alternative, not suddenly turning into grumpy mode or something.
A little basic knowledge of the developer's work would help, too.
Some ideas that may smooth the process :
Talk to the developers directly and ask if they have any specific requirements. Different platforms have different needs and requirements. Communication is important.
Get the basics of good HTML and CSS down. There are many references but you can try A List Apart as a starting point.