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So, I have an OpenGL ES 2.0 app. It compiles and runs in the iPhone/iPad simulators, on a real iPhone/iPad, and under Windows using Imgtec's emulator libraries (i.e. PVRVframe).
In said app, I have one particular draw call that results in no pixels written to the target, even though all the state I can query looks sensible (viewport, depth test/stencil test/cull/blend off, framebuffer complete etc), and AFAICT I am submitting sensible vertex data.
What I'm after at this point is a Pix / GPAD - like tool that will let me step through the scene and review state I cannot directly query from OpenGL at the point of the draw call in question (e.g. actual vertex/index buffer content).
Neither PVRTrace nor the OSX instruments appear to capture enough state for debugging this kind of problem. In particular, they do not capture vertex/index buffer or texture data (OSX instruments doesn't capture shader source either).
gDEBugger, previously the answer to this sort of question on Stack Overflow, is now at version 5.8 - it's gone free, which is nice, but no longer supports OpenGL ES 2 (under Windows, no ES2-renderable config is available through EGL; under OSX, there is no way to attach the debugger to an app running either in the simulator or on the real device) - which is not as nice.
Am I missing something obvious? What are my options? How do others debug their scenes?
There are several OpenGL ES 1.1/2.0 debugging tools from GPU vendors. Almost these tools require real device, but Imagination Technologies provides an emulation libraries and a tracing tool which you used. Did you use PVRTrace with PVRVFrame?
PowerVR (Imagination Technologies)
PVRVFrame is an emulation libraries for OpenGL ES 1.1/2.0 on OpenGL. And GL calls can be traced by PVRTrace with GUI.
PVRTrace can also connect with Linux ARMv7 devices.
Adreno (Qualcomm)
Adreno Profiler can trace GL calls with Adreno devices, such as Android with Snapdragon. Nexus One and many devices.
It can render GL calls that are executed on the target device.
WEBINAR: OPTIMIZE YOUR APP WITH ADRENO PROFILER
Tegra (NVIDIA)
PerfHUD ES has Frame Debugger as Adreno profiler. It require Tegra Development Kit.
Mali (ARM)
Mali GPU Performance Analysis Tool. It require Mali device. AFAIK, there are no Mali devices in the consumer market at the moment.
(I believe that gDEBugger 5.7 is the best tool for debugging OpenGL ES 1.1/2.0. But it is no longer available...)
It's possible in Xcode since version 4.2, c.f.
https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/WhatsNewXcode/Articles/xcode_4_2.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/00200-SW5
I have found that gDebugger 5.7 for Windows IS still available here:
http://files.gremedy.com/downloads/gDEBugger-5_7.msi
I modified this URL from the one found at the top of this download page:
view-source:http://www.gremedy.com/downloading.php?platform=windows32
It may be possible to access the same version for other platforms via the same trick.
An old license file is available here:
http://www.geeks3d.com/20101207/3d-programming-gdebugger-advanced-opengl-debugger-now-free/
But it expired on Jan 31st, 2011.
Related
I have successfully shared a GPU-based OpenGL context with OpenCL (using CL_CONTEXT_PROPERTY_USE_CGL_SHAREGROUP_APPLE when creating the OpenCL context).
However if the OpenGL context is software-based (created with kCGLPFARendererID, kCGLRendererGenericFloatID), then OpenCL context creation failed with error CL_INVALID_DEVICE (-33).
Is it possible to group-share a CPU-based OpenCL context with a CPU based OpenGL context?
If so, how?
I think this is a SDK/ Driver specific problem. So you should try to ask this question in a developer forum of the hardware you are trying to use.
For example you can register without problems at this page for amd related stuff:
http://devgurus.amd.com/welcome
There you get answers also from AMD interal developers like driver developer. I think they could tell you if it is possible or not.
For the Intel side of live you should try this place:
http://software.intel.com/de-de/forums/intel-opencl-sdk
But there i can't tell you how likely the internal developers try to answer.
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I've worked for some time with Corona SDK and love how fast and easy I can create powerful apps using Lua. But it can only compile for iOS and Android, which feels like too little now.
My main interest is for it to be able to compile to Desktop AND Mobile. At least for the following:
Windows + Mac for desktop, as standalone applications.
iOS + Android for mobile.
I'd prefer it to lean more towards Lua type scripting instead of ActionScript, but please feel free to post anything that you have worked with and love.
I've found the following engines so far:
Marmalade Quick - After further looking into it, Marmalade Quick can only build for Mobile!
IwGame - Works on top of marmalade and says it can deploy to
desktop and mobile with Lua. Any info is greatly appreciated on this
sio2 - Says "SIO2 is an OpenGLES based cross-platform 2D and 3D
game engine for iOS, Android, MacOS and Windows" and "The engine also
allows you to port your game on the Mac Store and on Windows.", but
their forum and web title is "Game Engine for Mobile Devices". Can't
find any info on if it can deploy to desktop platforms, any info is
greatly appreciated again.
Loom Engine - Loom is similar to Haxe + OpenFL (attempts to attract Flash developers) in that it uses AS3-like of ECMAScript, but it doesn't build native code from it. However it uses Cocos2D for rendering so it should in theory be as fast as Cocos2D. -- Thanks to Bojan.
SDL - I've read in multiple places that SDL can deploy to nearly any platform or device and has a Lua binding. But i can't find how this works as it's not an engine. Any one who can explain how it works and if it's possible is once again, very much appreciated.
SFML - "Windows, Linux, Mac OS X and soon Android & iOS. " doesn't use Lua but can use other languages like Java and Python etc. Anyone have any information on this?
Torgue2D - "Torque 2D was developed with OS X, Windows, and iOS devices in mind and works equally well on all the platforms." uses TorgueScript and no Android =(
Sencha - Seems to compile to all platforms, uses Javascript too which I know. But even with V8 JS would this work well performance wise compared to other options?
GameMaker - own scripting language GML and I actually remember this one as a tool for non-programmers. Has it actually grown into a real engine, I mean for serious development?
Construct2 - Same question as gamemaker
Corona - Lua but mobile only (Android and iOS only as well)
Cocos2D - Seems like it has lots of options but not sure with the same language? Seems like you'd have to re-write your entire code. Any info if cocos2D can deploy to desktop + mobile with almost the same code would be greatly appreciated.
Angel2D - Says it can deploy to everything except Android and uses Lua, anyone ever used this one before?
libgdx --- I've only seen good things about this. Here is a benchmark test for libgdx and is where I saw it reaching 40k sprites at 60fps. http://www.sparkrift.com/2012/1/love2d-vs-allegro-vs-clanlib-vs-libgdx-vs-cocos2d-x-vs-monogame-vs-xna-vs-sfml . It seems libgdx barely goes over 30k actually. But still seems amazing. This is on the same level as Qt for me, almost perfect, except I'm not really worried about performance on it. libgdx can build for everything pretty much.
XNA + MonoGame --- MonoGame's performance seems only slightly lower than libgdx, can build to most platforms. However I don't know much about XNA and I heard it won't be receiving future updates, but is quite stable? More information is welcome.
Citrus --- Don't have much information on Citrus either. AS3 game engine that can build for iOS, Android, Windows, Mac and more.
Haxe + OpenFL --- OpenFL (Haxe) builds to native on many platforms, not just to Flash. Windows, Mac, Linux and Android all get optional native deployment or OpenFL runtime called Neko which is in theory faster than Flash, and SDL 2.0 will enable iOS deployment soon(ish). -- Thanks to Bojan.
Qt-Project --- Just linking Qt project here, can build for everything and has a pretty big community with lots of third party libraries to help you even further.
Moai ---The only Lua engine that I know that can build for Desktop and Mobile. Only downside is the community isn't that big and documentation isn't the best. But if you can get passed those this is a great solution and the one I'm currently using.
Adobe --- Can't forget to add adobe here since it can build to everything that supports flash.
Unity3D --- Recently announced 2D integration looks very promising, should be released Q3-Q4 of 2013.
Cocos2d-x --- An open source engine. Supports JS, Lua, C++ and multiple platforms.
Html5 --- There seem to be a lot of emphasise on html5 mobile apps, here are just a few tools I found that can help port your html5 project to a platform:
Chromium embedded
Sencha
Phonegap
Appcelerator/Titanium
Icenium
So, I'd be happy if you could comment from your experiences with any engines and suggest which one you would recommend.
Thank you for your help!
EDIT: Since this topic is getting popular I'll be adding other options I've found over time. I suggest you choose what is most familiar to you and best for your project needs.
I would recommend V-Play (v-play.net) - it's a cross-platform game engine based on Qt for iOS, Android, Symbian, MeeGo, Blackberry10 and also can export for native desktop applications for Windows, Mac and Linux.
It's based on C++ but has a neat scripting support for QML & JavaScript. QML is a no-brainer to learn and can boost your productivity as less code is needed - just see the comparison with cocos2d-x(60% less Loc) or Corona(15% less LoC) for a comparison of the same games.
(Disclaimer: I'm one of the guys behind V-Play)
If you are into using Python, Kivy is a great solution these days. It compiles to all the platforms you ask for:
Kivy is running on Linux, Windows, MacOSX, Android and IOS. You can
run the same code on all supported platforms. It can use natively most
inputs protocols and devices like WM_Touch, WM_Pen, Mac OS X Trackpad
and Magic Mouse, Mtdev, Linux Kernel HID, TUIO. A multi-touch mouse
simulator is included.
Kivy uses lots of optimized code for graphics rendering (via Cython) so it is fast too.
Here is a speakerdeck that gives you some background and an overview (android specific).
How about HaxeFlixel? We have a great selection of demos, and of course support cross platform development via Haxe + OpenFL. This is an open source project hosted on GitHub. We support all major platforms (including iOS).
Here is my game framework Oxygine.
It is open source modern hardware accelerated 2D C++ framework for mobile and PC platforms.
Features: OpenGL(ES) 2, compressed textures, atlases, complex animations/tweens/sprites, scene graph, fonts, event handling, build tools, and others.
Can be built on top of SDL2 or Marmalade SDK.
In the basis of the engine there is a scene graph, that is similar to Flash one. To be short, You can call this as Flash for C++, but more comfortable and way faster. Initially it was developed for mobile platforms (iOS, Android), but can be also used for PC games.
No mention of App Game Kit (AGK) here so let me fill in the gap. It's a mainly 2D cross platform SDK allowing you to code once in either C++ or it's own "Basic" language. Version 2 just got over 400% funding on Kickstarter and will have full 3D support, Spine support (for 2D animated characters), bullet physics and whole bunch of other new features.
It already has Facebook, Twitter, a bunch of Ultrabook sensor commands, Box2D and more. I've been using it from the start and love it (can you tell?). No, I don't work for The Game Creators (the company that created it) although I admit I did do for a while making some apps.
One of the best features from my point of view is you can develop on Windows and broadcast from the IDE over Wi-Fi to any supported device, so while I'm coding I can (within seconds) test my code on iPad, Android, Windows, Mac or Blackberry Playbook.
If you have C# background. Have a look at Duality.
Duality is a flexible 2D game framework written entirely in C# –
and it’s here to make things a little easier for you. It provides both
an extensible game engine and a visual editor to match. There will be
no need for a level editor, testing environment or content manager
because Duality is all that by itself. And best of all: It’s free.
I'm just answering to give you some insights on how the SDL is used. As you said before it's not a game engine (it's just a library actually). Furthermore, it is not object oriented at all and you don't have some easy animation facilities (you have to code them by yourself).
How it works (I used the C version but I guess the Lua binding should be similar):
Include the headers needed to build the project on the platform you want.
Design your own game loop in which you will set up (at least) a whole event processing system, frame rate manager and a "screen cleaner (or updater)" (I'm insisting on the fact that you have to manually refresh your screen using the SDL_flip_screen routine which is something that is not one of your concerns at all with Corona).
Then, code your game using all the "mechanics" you made before.
The SDL is a low level library (don't expect to have an easy to use GUI framework or the storyboard framework of Corona for instance).
Finally, this library was used to port Civilization III to Linux, so yes it works but it will ask you a lot of energy to have something like you had with Corona ;)
PS: I am not a native English speaker, so please let me know if I wasn't clear :)
Gideros is a great Lua based 2d cross platforms engine, currently supporting both Android and IOS platforms, but more to come.
And it also has some great features as instant on device testing, auto scaling and auto image resolution to easily target various of screen sizes, as well as the option to extend each platform through native plugins.
You also have ShiVa3D, a serious competitor of Unity3D.
It uses Lua and supports many platforms from mobile to game consoles and web browsers.
Very intuitive to use and very nice UI to work with.
So, we've got a little graphical doohickey that needs to run in a server environment without a real video card. All it really needs is framebuffer objects and maybe some vector/font anti-aliasing. It will be slow, I know. It just needs to output single frames.
I see this post about how to force software rendering mode, but it seems to apply to machines that already have OpenGL enabled cards (like NVidia).
So, for fear of trying to install OpenGL on a machine three time zones away with a bunch of live production sites on it-- has anybody tried this and/or know how to "emulate" an OpenGL environment? Unfortunately our dev server HAS a video card, so I can't really show "what I've tried".
The relevant code is all in Cinder, but I think our actual OpenGL utilization is lightweight for this purpose.
This would run on windows server 2008 Standard
I see MS has a software implementation for OGL 1.1, but can't seem to find one for 2.0
Build/find some Mesa DLLs.
It will be slow.
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I've been thinking about starting a new graphics project and I want to use Java. Java has wrappers for all of the relevant GL functionality but I wonder how many people, including casual users, actually have decent GL drivers installed. By decent, I mean somewhat stable and fairly new (GL 1.5 support would probably do although the GLSL support that comes with 2.0 would be great). I could DirectX, even with Java, but I pretty much hate it and this project is supposed to be 'fun'. Also, I like the at least near-cross-platformedness of GL. So, anyone know of any non-imaginary stats on what percentage of Windows users have the drivers to run a GL app?
The Steam Hardware Survey is probably the best and most detailed source for info about what gamers have. Accurate statistics for the general population will be harder to come by. Instead, you should look at this in terms of how recent you want the graphics hardware. For example, any ATI chip from the R300 series (Radeon 9550+) onward supports OpenGL 2.0. On the NVidia side, any GeForce 6000+ series chip will support OpenGL 2.0, and their predecessors, the FX series, almost supported OpenGL 2.0. The R300 series and the FX series were both introduced in 2002, so if you know what portion of your target market is using a PC from 2003 or later, you'll have a fairly good idea of how widespread OpenGL 2.0 support is among users with discrete graphics.
If you want to support integrated graphics (which are the largest segment of the market, but aren't particularly common with those who are serious about graphics of any kind) your users will need at least a GMA X3000 for hardware acceleration of OpenGL 2.0 features, which means their system has to be from 2006 or later.
If you're interested in support on other operating systems, any Intel Mac will support OpenGL 2.0 with software fallbacks, and hardware acceleration whenever the chip would support it under Windows. On Linux, any system with Mesa 7 or later (June 2007 or later) will support OpenGL 2.0 software rendering. Hardware acceleration is less reliable, but there are decent open-source drivers for ATI chips from R300 and newer.
Every modern day video card supports OpenGL ... Shouldnt you be questioning how many Windows boxes have the Java runtime?
As I recall, Windows XP comes with 1.1 support out of the box. Vista upgrades this to 1.5. So you can at least count on those as an absolute minimum.
Apart from that, the GPU drivers from pretty much any vendor gives you at least 2.0 support.
But if I were you, I'd reconsider DirectX. I don't know what you hate about it, but it does have some advantages. The tool support is vastly better (ie, there are tools available. And PIX is nothing short of amazing), the API is up to date, and well designed, rather than accumulated over 20 years of a committee working at cross purposes, and if this is limited to Windows anyway, cross-platform doesn't really matter. (On the other hand, of course, if you do need cross-platform capabilities, it doesn't really matter what else DirectX can offer, it won't deliver that one killer feature)
Nearly everybody has SOME form of OpenGL support. Experience has shown that the actual drivers involved can be quite poor when dealing with ATI and especially Intel hardware, but it will at least work, aforementioned bugs notwithstanding. If nothing else, Windows can fall back to its built in 1.1 (XP and earlier) or 1.4 (Vista and higher) implementation. It won't work well, but it will work.
Windows XP comes with OpenGL 1.1 (quite slow though). Windows Vista also comes with OpenGL 1.1 (but for some special applications it has OpenGL 1.4 emulator on top of D3D).
When you install a graphics driver on Windows, it installs a more OpenGL version. OpenGL 1.5 is roughly "DX9 shader model 2.0" capable hardware. How many machines have that kind of hardware depends on your target market. In traditional/hardcore games space, almost all will (see Steam Hardware Survey).
In more casual/small games space, quite a lot of machines have much older hardware (see Unity Hardware Stats - almost 30% in 2009 Q1 are older than "DX9 shader model 2.0"). Also, a lot of machines in that space do not have custom drivers; they use whatever display drivers are shipped in Windows (which do not provide anything more than GL 1.1). Again, see Unity Hardware Stats - the most popular driver versions are the ones that come with Windows.
Stability wise, I'd strongly suggest using D3D9 on Windows instead of OpenGL. Driver quality is much better for D3D9 (less crashes inside drivers, less incorrect rendering, better performance, ...).
I'd say that all Windows users have some support for OpenGL. The latest versions usually are reserved for Vista users, gamers, and developers.
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I'm currently trying to get OpenVG up and running on my desktop. The problem comes here: I am / will be developing an application for a Windows CE device (with .NET compact framework), which has hardware-accelerated OpenGL ES 2.0 and OpenVG 1.0.1 (based on TI OMAP35x, if you're interested). The application will definitely use OpenVG for drawing, and likely OpenGL for some effects if OpenVG doesn't offer them (i.e. blur).
Now I'd like to develop on my desktop without the emulator (see this question). So I thought I just import OpenVG with P/Invoke, which was quite easy, since the OpenVG people made their constants into real enums, and though a procedural C API, it translated very well into an object-oriented form (with a Graphics class for drawing and Path, Paint, Stroke and Image objects). I also managed to get going with differently named DLLs and entry points. Oh, and I imported EGL 1.3, also quite easy to translate to an object-oriented API.
Until this point, it sounded quite good. I thought I'd just use the OpenVG reference implementation from Khronos, but it is slow. Really slow. You know, like clearing the surface taking literally a second! So I thought, fine, OpenVG is a standard, I'll just take one of the other implementations. Most of them are based on OpenGL, which is what I want. Or isn't it?
No, it's not. Creating an OpenGL ES 2.0 surface with EGL 1.3 (supplied with the PowerVR Windows Emulation SDK for OpenGL ES 2.0) is not compatible with any OpenVG implementation I tried. Some of them require traditional OpenGL (AmanithVG GLE), the EGL version supplied by PowerVR doesn't support OpenVG. Most implementations don't even have EGL and use some bizarre functions to initialize the context - all of them assuming that an OpenGL context has already been created. OpenGL, not OpenGL ES. Sigh.
The only one I could get to work was AmanithVG SRE, which is very fast for a software implementation and does not rely on OpenGL or EGL. It works, but it is still far too slow for real time animations.
I can't believe that these things feel so wrong. I'm really tempted to just use WindowsMobile.DirectX.Direct3D, for which PowerVR supplies an emulation layer for Desktop Windows, in the hope that the final Board Support Package will supply Direct3D as an OpenGL ES wrapper, like it seems to be on many devices.
So, the question, finally:
Is there any OpenVG implementation for Windows Desktop systems that works with OpenGL ES 2.0? Bonus points if it works smoothly with PowerVR's OpenGL ES 2.0 emulation and the supplied EGL 1.3.
Or should I just try to use a traditional OpenGL 2.0 implementation on the Desktop? But they're typically not supplying EGL as well. I don't want to have two initialization layers (EGL and WGL). Or should I?
Note: this is not a .NET question, because the problem is the very same without .NET.
I found a closed source OpenGL ES emulator for OpenGLES 2.0 and other versions from this site while searching for a solution to another problem I had:
http://www.malideveloper.com/developer-resources/tools/opengl-es-20-emulator.php
Its closed source but it appears you can use it for your development purposes.
Other then that, you could write your own abstraction layer that can switch between OpenGL and OpenGL ES -- I couldn't find one available from my searches. If you find one, let me know because that is what I am trying to do.