I am looking for a realtime hosted push/socket service (paid is fine) which will handle many connections/channels from many clients (JS) and server api which can subscribe/publish to those channels from a PHP script.
Here is an example:
The client UI has a fleet of 100 trucks rendered, when a truck is modified its data is pushed to channel (eg. /updates/truck/34) to server (PHP subscriber), DB is updated and receipt/data is sent back to the single truck channel.
We have a prototype working in Firebase.io but we don't need the firebase database, we just need the realtime transmission. One of the great features of firebase.io is that its light and we can subscribe to many small channels at once. This helps reduce payload as only that object data that has changed is transmitted.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think pusher and pubnub will allow me to create 100 truck pub/subs (in this example) for each client that opens the site?
Can anyone offer a recommendation?
I can confirm that you can use Pusher to achieve this - I work for Pusher.
PubNub previously counted each channel as a connection, but they now seem to have introduced multiplexing. This FAQ states you can support 100 channels over the multiplexed connection.
So, both of these services will be able to achieve what you are looking for. There will also be more options available via this Realtime Web Tech guide which I maintain.
[I work for Firebase]
Firebase should continue to work well for you even if you don't need the persistence features. We're not aware of any case where our persistence actually makes things harder, and in many cases it actually makes your life a lot easier. For example, you probably want to be able to ask "what is the current position of a truck" without needing to wait for the next time an update is sent.
If you've encountered a situation where persistence is actually a negative for you, we'd love to hear about it. That certainly isn't our intention.
Also - we're not Firebase.io -- we're just Firebase (though we do own the firebase.io domain name).
Maybe the title could be rephrased slightly better but basically I'm wondering how the likes of facebook have implemented a 'live' interface with regards to new notifications/messages etc. I know that the complexity behind such a social network is too much to discuss in this one small SO thread but if anyone has any idea as to the technologies used in order to notify it's users almost immediately of new records (I'm assuming DB records) then I'd be curious to hear it.
If I were to guess, I'd say that there were timers on client-side code that would periodically check the database via AJAX and then react accordingly. Is this right?
It is via Comet and long polling via node.js or similar non-thread based web servers.
If I were to guess, I'd say that there were timers on client-side code that would periodically check the database via AJAX and then react accordingly. Is this right?
You are partially right. The client opens a connection and the server only responds once it has something to return to the client.
I think they are trying to use HTML5 WebSockets but as a fallback they using Comet, AJAX, Long pooling with a good backend.
I thought about getting rid of all client-side Ajax calls (jQuery) and instead use a permanent socket connection (Socket.IO).
Therefore I would use event listeners/emitters client-side and server-side.
Ex. a click event is triggered by user in the browser, client-side emitter pushes the event through socket connection to server. Server-side listener reacts on incoming event, and pushes "done" event back to client. Client's listener reacts on incoming event by fading in DIV element.
Does that make sense at all?
Pros & cons?
There is a lot of common misinformation in this thread that is very inaccurate.
TL/DR;
WebSocket replaces HTTP for applications! It was designed by Google with the help of Microsoft and many other leading companies. All browsers support it. There are no cons.
SocketIO is built on top of the WebSocket protocol (RFC 6455). It was designed to replace AJAX entirely. It does not have scalability issues what-so-ever. It works faster than AJAX while consuming an order of magnitude fewer resources.
AJAX is 10 years old and is built on top of a single JavaScript XMLHTTPRequest function that was added to allow callbacks to servers without reloading the entire page.
In other words, AJAX is a document protocol (HTTP) with a single JavaScript function.
In contrast, WebSocket is a application protocol that was designed to replace HTTP entirely. When you upgrade an HTTP connection (by requesting WebSocket protocol), you enable two-way full duplex communication with the server and no protocol handshaking is involved what so ever. With AJAX, you either must enable keep-alive (which is the same as SocketIO, only older protocol) or, force new HTTP handshakes, which bog down the server, every time you make an AJAX request.
A SocketIO server running on top of Node can handle 100,000 concurrent connections in keep-alive mode using only 4gb of ram and a single CPU, and this limit is caused by the V8 garbage collection engine, not the protocol. You will never, ever achieve this with AJAX, even in your wildest dreams.
Why SocketIO so much faster and consumes so much fewer resources
The main reasons for this is again, WebSocket was designed for applications, and AJAX is a work-around to enable applications on top of a document protocol.
If you dive into the HTTP protocol, and use MVC frameworks, you'll see a single AJAX request will actually transmit 700-900 bytes of protocol load just to AJAX to a URL (without any of your own payload). In striking contrast, WebSocket uses about 10 bytes, or about 70x less data to talk with the server.
Since SocketIO maintains an open connection, there's no handshake, and server response time is limited to round-trip or ping time to the server itself.
There is misinformation that a socket connection is a port connection; it is not. A socket connection is just an entry in a table. Very few resources are consumed, and a single server can provide 1,000,000+ WebSocket connections. An AWS XXL server can and does host 1,000,000+ SocketIO connections.
An AJAX connection will gzip/deflate the entire HTTP headers, decode the headers, encode the headers, and spin up a HTTP server thread to process the request, again, because this is a document protocol; the server was designed to spit out documents a single time.
In contrast, WebSocket simply stores an entry in a table for a connection, approximately 40-80 bytes. That's literally it. No polling occurs, at all.
WebSocket was designed to scale.
As far as SocketIO being messy... This is not the case at all. AJAX is messy, you need promise/response.
With SocketIO, you simply have emitters and receivers; they don't even need to know about each-other; no promise system is needed:
To request a list of users you simply send the server a message...
socket.emit("giveMeTheUsers");
When the server is ready, it will send you back another message. Tada, you're done. So, to process a list of users you simply say what to do when you get a response you're looking for...
socket.on("HereAreTheUsers", showUsers(data) );
That's it. Where is the mess? Well, there is none :) Separation of concerns? Done for you. Locking the client so they know they have to wait? They don't have to wait :) You could get a new list of users whenever... The server could even play back any UI command this way... Clients can connect to each other without even using a server with WebRTC...
Chat system in SocketIO? 10 lines of code. Real-time video conferencing? 80 lines of code Yes... Luke... Join me. use the right protocol for the job... If you're writing an app... use an app protocol.
I think the problem and confusion here is coming from people that are used to using AJAX and thinking they need all the extra promise protocol on the client and a REST API on the back end... Well you don't. :) It's not needed anymore :)
yes, you read that right... a REST API is not needed anymore when you decide to switch to WebSocket. REST is actually outdated. if you write a desktop app, do you communicate with the dialog with REST? No :) That's pretty dumb.
SocketIO, utilizing WebSocket does the same thing for you... you can start to think of the client-side as simple the dialog for your app. You no longer need REST, at all.
In fact, if you try to use REST while using WebSocket, it's just as silly as using REST as the communication protocol for a desktop dialog... there is absolutely no point, at all.
What's that you say Timmy? What about other apps that want to use your app? You should give them access to REST? Timmy... WebSocket has been out for 4 years... Just have them connect to your app using WebSocket, and let them request the messages using that protocol... it will consume 50x fewer resources, be much faster, and 10x easier to develop... Why support the past when you're creating the future?
Sure, there are use cases for REST, but they are all for older and outdated systems... Most people just don't know it yet.
UPDATE:
A LOT of people have been asking me recently how can they start writing an app in 2018 (and now soon 2019) using WebSockets, that the barrier seems really high, that once they play with Socket.IO they don't know where else to turn or what to learn.
Fortunately the last 3 years have been very kind to WebSockets...
There are now 3 major frameworks that support BOTH REST and WebSocket, and even IoT protocols or other minimal/speedy protocols like ZeroMQ, and you don't have to worry about any of it; you just get support for it out of the box.
Note: Although Meteor is by far the most popular, I am leaving it out because although they are a very, very well-funded WebSocket framework, anyone who has coded with Meteor for a few years will tell you, it's an internal mess and a nightmare to scale. Sort of like WordPress is to PHP, it is there, it is popular, but it is not very well made. It's not well-thought out, and it will soon die. Sorry Meteor folks, but check out these 3 other projects compared to Meteor, and you will throw Meteor away the same day :)
With all of the below frameworks, you write your service once, and you get both REST and WebSocket support. What's more, it's a single line of config code to swap between almost any backend database.
Feathers Easiest to use, works the same on the front and backend, and supports most features, Feathers is a collection of light-weight wrappers for existing tools like express. Using awesome tools like feathers-vuex, you can create immutable services that are fully mockable, support REST, WebSocket and other protocols (using Primus), and get free full CRUD operations, including search and pagination, without a single line of code (just some config). Also works really great with generated data like json-schema-faker so you can not only fully mock things, you can mock it with random yet valid data. You can wire up an app to support type-ahead search, create, delete and edit, with no code (just config). As some of you may know, proper code-through-config is the biggest barrier to self-modifying code. Feathers does it right, and will push you towards the front of the pack in the future of app design.
Moleculer Moleculer is unfortunately an order of magnitude better at the backend than Feathers. While feathers will work, and let you scale to infinity, feathers simply doesn't even begin to think about things like production clustering, live server consoles, fault tolerance, piping logs out of the box, or API Gateways (while I've built a production API gateway out of Feathers, Moleculer does it way, way better). Moleculer is also the fastest growing, both in popularity and new features, than any WebSocket framework.
The winning strike with Moleculer is you can use a Feathers or ActionHero front-end with a Moleculer backend, and although you lose some generators, you gain a lot of production quality.
Because of this I recommend learning Feathers on the front and backend, and once you make your first app, try switching your backend to Moleculer. Moleculer is harder to get started with, but only because it solves all the scaling problems for you, and this information can confuse newer users.
ActionHero Listed here as a viable alternative, but Feathers and Moleculer are better implementations. If anything about ActionHero doesn't Jive with you, don't use it; there are two better ways above that give you more, faster.
NOTE: API Gateways are the future, and all 3 of the above support them, but Moleculer literally gives you it out of the box. An API gateway lets you massage your client interaction, allowing caching, memoization, client-to-client messaging, blacklisting, registration, fault tolerance and all other scaling issues to be handled by a single platform component. Coupling your API Gateway with Kubernetes will let you scale to infinity with the least amount of problems possible. It is the best design method available for scalable apps.
Update for 2021:
The industry has evolved so much that you don't even need to pay attention to the protocol. GraphQL now uses WebSockets by default! Just look up how to use subscriptions, and you're done. The fastest way to handle it will occur for you.
If you use Vue, React or Angular, you're in luck, because there is a native GraphQL implementation for you! Just call your data from the server using a GraphQL subscription, and that data object will stay up to date and reactive on it's own.
GraphQL will even fall-back to REST for you when you need to use legacy systems, and subscriptions will still update using sockets. Everything is solved when you move to GraphQL.
Yes, if you thought "WTH?!?" when you heard you can simply subscribe, like with FireBase, to a server object, and it will update itself for you. Yes. That's now true. Just use a GraphQL subscription. It will use WebSockets.
Chat system? 1 line of code.
Real time video system? 1 line of code.
Video game with 10mb of open world data shared across 1m real-time users? 1 line of code. The code is just your GQL query now.
As long as you build or use the right back-end, all this realtime stuff is now done for you with GQL subscriptions. Make the switch as soon as you can and stop worrying about protocols.
Socket.IO uses persistent connection between client and server, so you will reach a maximum limit of concurrent connections depending on the resources you have on server side, while more Ajax async requests can be served with the same resources.
Socket.IO is mainly designed for realtime and bi-directional connections between client and server and in some applications there is no need to keep permanent connections. On the other hand Ajax async connections should pass the HTTP connection setup phase and send header data and all cookies with every request.
Socket.IO has been designed as a single process server and may have scalability issues depending server resources that you are bound to.
Socket.IO in not well suited for applications when you are better to cache results of client requests.
Socket.IO applications face with difficulties with SEO optimization and search engine indexing.
Socket.IO is not a standard and not equivalent to W3C Web Socket API, It uses current Web Socket API if browser supports, socket.io created by a person to resolve cross browser compatibility in real time apps and is so young, about 1 year old. Its learning curve, less developers and community resources compared with ajax/jquery, long term maintenance and less need or better options in future may be important for developer teams to make their code based on socket.io or not.
Sending one way messages and invoking callbacks to them can get very messy.
$.get('/api', sendData, returnFunction); is cleaner than
socket.emit('sendApi', sendData); socket.on('receiveApi', returnFunction);
Which is why dnode and nowjs were built on top of socket.io to make things manageable. Still event driven but without giving up callbacks.
I was just wondering, How do comments appear instantly on Facebook? For example, when I'm on my profile and my friend comments something on my post, I can instantly see it. Is it AJAX? Or Queuing system? If I want to do the same thing, what do I do?
Thanks
I'm not exactly sure how facebook has implemented their system.
but it will either work with websockets, AJAX or a comet server.
If you want to have the same effect there are a lot of different techniques you could use,
but I would recommend looking into node.js and maybe even the now.js plugging, which allows for realtime updates via websockets. It even has support for older browsers, so if the browser does not support websockets, it will do a fall over to either a comet server implementation, AJAX or an iframe.
Basically websockets allow for better control over when data should be sent or received from and to the server since it constantly listening to the socket, so you only send data when required and same for receiving data as well, where with an AJAX approach you had to make a call every X seconds.
It's extremely easy to setup on a linux environment, and there's ample documentation to get you started.
It works with javascript and is build on the Google V8 engine, so if you've ever worked with OOP Javascript, you should be able to pick it up relatively easy.
LINKS:
http://nodejs.org/
http://nowjs.com/
You'll want to look into PHP sockets
Actually, its long polling according to this answer (which also explains how to verify or see if its changed since the answer):
How does Facebook fetch live updates
I'm working on the design of a web app which will be using AJAX to communicate with a server on an embedded device. But for one feature, the client will need to get very frequent updates (>10 per second), as close to real time as possible, for an extended period of time. Meanwhile typical AJAX requests will need to be handled from time to time.
Some considerations unique to this project:
This data will be very small, probably no more than a single numeric value.
There will only be 1 client connected to the server at a time, so scaling is not an issue.
The client and server will reside on the same local network, so the connection will be fast and reliable.
The app will be designed for Android devices, so we can take advantage of any platform-specific browser features.
The backend will most likely be implemented in Python using WSGI on Apache or lighttpd, but that is still open for discussion.
I'm looking into Comet techniques including XHL long polling and hidden iframe but I'm pretty new to web development and I don't know what kind of performance we can expect. The server shouldn't have any problem preparing the data, it's just a matter of pushing it out to the client as quickly as possible. Is 10 updates per second an unreasonable expectation for any of the Comet techniques, or even regular AJAX polling? Or is there another method you would suggest?
I realize this is ultimately going to take some prototyping, but if someone can give me a ball-park estimate or better yet specific technologies (client and server side) that would provide the best performance in this case, that would be a great help.
You may want to consider WebSockets. That way you wouldn't have to poll, you would receive data directly from your server. I'm not sure what server implementations are available at this point since it's still a pretty new technology, but I found a blog post about a library for WebSockets on Android:
http://anismiles.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/websocket-support-in-android%E2%80%99s-phonegap-apps/
For a Python back end, you might want to look into Twisted. I would also recommend the WebSocket approach, but failing that, and since you seem to be focused on a browser client, I would default to HTTP Streaming rather than polling or long-polls. This jQuery Plugin implements an http streaming Ajax client and claims specifically to support Twisted.
I am not sure if this would be helpful at all but you may want to try Comet style ajax
http://ajaxian.com/archives/comet-a-new-approach-to-ajax-applications