I have some question about Chisel conversion. I know it's theoretical but it would be nice if someone give his opinion.
1) I want to ask why Chisel does not focus on VHDL / SystemVerilog conversion. Although both Verilog and VHDL are same, in some countries especially Europe prefer VHDL.
2) Similarly, C++ model is used for simulation models. Why Not SystemC for this purpose?
I was reading some notes and find out FIRRTL is the middleman for converting CHISEL-->FIRRTL--> Verilog and CHISEL---> FIRRTL--> C++ model.
Is it a nice idea to use the (Low)FIRRTL specs to Convert the VHDL and SystemC models.?
The short answer is that supporting VHDL and SystemC backends simply hasn't been a priority for the developers.
There are a few reasons why it hasn't been a priority:
People rarely ask for it. This is the first time I've seen this come up
since this issue on the Chisel 2 repo back in 2014.
Lack of developer time. We have quite a backlog of features already so additional backends simply haven't been a priority. While I think the implementation effort of adding a VHDL and/or SystemC backend isn't too bad, they would also present an additional maintenance and verification overhead. All this being said, Chisel3 and FIRRTL are open-source projects so we welcome contributors who want to help us with particular features!
Unclear benefits. VHDL (at least) is interoperable with Verilog so it's unclear why a VHDL backend is needed. As far as tooling, my understanding is that Verilog seems to have equivalent or better support than VHDL. For readability/debug-ability concerns, the generated code is not really intended for reading anyway; rather, most users use waveforms and only use the emitted code for the source-locators pointing back to the Scala source. I'm less familiar with SystemC so there might be some nice benefits of emitting it that I'm unaware of!
I'm most certainly unaware many benefits so please let me know what I'm missing!
One other bit that might help future readers: as jkoenig mentioned, the purpose of Chisel isn't to generate HDL code for humans to use. The purpose is to create a new language for designing hardware.
Verilog just happens to be a language that is spoken by lots of hardware tools, so generating Verilog is an easy way to make Chisel interoperable with the current ecosystem of CAD tools. Otherwise you would have to write your own synthesis and place-and-route tools if you actually wanted to implement Chisel designs on real hardware. In this respect, Verilog or VHDL is a moot argument. Either one would work, and as long as one works, the other is not really necessary.
I have Xilinx background and now I happened to write some code on Altera devices. I have a question about generating post-synthesis models (also post-fit). On Xilinx I had netget which was able to generate verilog or vhdl post-synthesis model of my design which I was able to use freely for example in iverilog compiler. I quartus ii i have found quartus_eda tool but I am not able to perform what I wanted, I can generate *.vo files which looks fine but I am not able to find libraries to cover elements used there. I am using --tool=modelsim. Where I should look after them ?
See ModelSim-Altera Precompiled Libraries for pre-compiles libraries for Altera devices in ModelSim simulation.
The Preparing for EDA Simulation may also be helpful.
However, you may re-consider doing post-synthesis/fit simulation, since functional simulation at RTL level combined with Static Timing Analysis (STA) maybe an alternative approach. If the intention is to verify timing with post-fit simulation, then note that Altera apparently is abandoning this support for this, since timing information in Standard Delay Format Output File (.sdo) files is not generated for post-fit simulation information for e.g. Cyclone V devices.
I have completed on a project making physical logic gates and am now looking for a way to turn an arbitrary program into some series of logic gates so I can use them.
I need a program that can take some arbitrary function (say f= x^2 -1) directly into some series of logic gates. Does this already exist?
I have found Verilog and several other open source options but they do not appear to output circuit diagrams. There is also Quartus II and other programs which will convert VHDL code into a schematic.
Preferably I would like something that compiles Python/C++ to a logic gate schematic directly - but really any language is fine.
Thanks.
EDIT: I do mean physical gates - they use ball bearings!
I have all of the 1-bit-input/1-bit-output gates and all of the 2-bit-input/1-bit output-gates. From these I can also construct a MAJ gate to do error correction.
Write your arbitrary code in VHDL, turning VHDL into gates is what a synthesis tool does.
Not everything you write will be synthesisable; file handling can't be translated into gates, neither can anything that conventionally uses the heap (such as malloc, or pointers, in C, or "new" and access types in VHDL). Floating point can be synthesised (with VHDL-2008) but it's not quite as simple as signal A : Real; A <= 2.0 * X * X - 1.0; you have to use types from the synthesisable floating point library. So there may be some negotiation with the tool about the programming language subset you can use.
But I'm sensing a slightly different question here : how do I translate arbitrary code into MY logic gates, implemented in (technology not described in the question). And that's harder to answer.
Synthesis tools usually come from a vendor such as an FPGA vendor, and they translate arbitrary code into that vendor's logic gates, not yours.
The ideal solution is to create a library describing your logic technology, which plugs into a vendor-neutral synthesis tool, such as Synplicity from Synopsys. Then Synplicity can synthesise to your technology instead of an FPGA vendor's.
OK, but creating that library is likely to be a task roughly on a par with writing a backend for a custom CPU's instruction set, and integrating that backend into gcc. Except that Synplicity, unlike gcc, isn't open source, so without considerable financial and technical resources, and help and internal documentation from a major EDA tool company, it's approximately impossible. (At this point I'd be delighted to be corrected by someone who's actually done it)
EDIT (nearly 7 years later!)
GHDL (open source VHDL simulator) available from Github has grown a synthesis branch, so this route is now likely to be easier (I'll stop short of saying easy!) or may be a better choice than a proprietary toolset for the route below. It has a tie-in to the YOSYS open source synthesis suite. CAVEAT : I haven't tried it, but it may be worth a look for future viewers of this question.
(end edit)
So we need a different approach.
Back to the FPGA synth tools : I'll use Xilinx XST as an example. It'll synth to Xilinx primitives, in some Xilinx closed internal format.
However there's also an option labelled "Write post-synthesis netlist".
Using that, you can get a structural VHDL file representing the translation of your arbitrary code into Xilinx gates, flip-flops, and other elements, which are drawn from the Simprims library.
Attempt to compile that (e.g. in a simulator) without making the Simprims library visible (e.g. with the library Simprims; use Simprims; statements commented out and you'll get something valuable:
a list of compilation errors
Not so valuable, you may think : except that it's actually a list of gates, flipflops and other elements that are needed to implement your design.
If you can find (or create) a one-to-one correspondence between these, and elements in your chosen technology, then you can map this netlist to your technology.
If there are Simprims elements for which you don't have equivalents, you need to implement them - e.g. by creating 3-input AND gates from networks of the 2-input NAND gates you have.
Use the corresponding elements from your own (VHDL) library, instead of Simprims, and you should, in theory, have a usable compiled design.
(You're on your own with problems like layout, routing, timing analysis. This is not trivial, but for the sake of this question I'm assuming your "project making physical gates" has these covered...)
Firstly, logic synthesis is basic logic optimization of logic circuits, or the transformation of structural logic circuits into a data structure representing logic circuits. See https://stackoverflow.com/a/60535990/1531728 for resources about logic synthesis.
Secondly, to transform computer programs (e.g., in Python, C, C++, or otherwise) into logic circuits, you would need to perform high-level synthesis (or behavioral synthesis) to transform the computer program by parsing it into a control and data flow graph (CDFG, or a pair of control flow graph and a dataflow graph), optimize the CDFG, and subsequently transform this CDFG into a logic circuit for logic synthesis. Once you have the logic circuit, you still need to perform physical design (e.g., floorplanning, placement, and routing) to map that logic circuit into a layout for tapeout (standard-cell -based digital integrated circuit design) or onto a field-programmable gate array (FPGA).
The references below provide literature reviews into the topics I mentioned.
#book{Lavagno2016a,
Address = {Boca Raton, {FL}},
Author = {Luciano Lavagno and Igor L. Markov and Grant Martin and Louis K. Scheffer},
Doi = {https://dx.doi.org/10.1201/b19569},
Edition = {Second},
Publisher = {{CRC} Press},
Series = {Electronic Design Automation for Integrated Circuits Handbook},
Title = {Electronic Design Automation for {IC} System Design, Verification, and Testing},
Volume = {1},
Year = {2016}}
#book{Lavagno2016,
Address = {Boca Raton, {FL}},
Author = {Luciano Lavagno and Igor L. Markov and Grant Martin and Louis K. Scheffer},
Doi = {https://dx.doi.org/10.1201/b19714},
Edition = {Second},
Publisher = {{CRC} Press},
Series = {Electronic Design Automation for Integrated Circuits Handbook},
Title = {Electronic Design Automation for {IC} Implementation, Circuit Design, and Process Technology},
Volume = {2},
Year = {2016}}
See https://github.com/lsils/lstools-showcase for the state-of-the-art logic synthesis libraries from EPFL (Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne) in Lausanne, Switzerland.
You can use these tools to perform logic synthesis. They are programs, commercial high-level synthesis software, that transform C or C++ code into Verilog (or some other hardware description language, HDL), and subsequently into logic circuits.
You can also consider Python-based HDL (such as PyMTL, PyRTL, or MyHDL), Scala-based HDL (e.g., Chisel HDL), or Haskell-based HDL (e.g., Clash). These HDLs provide a workaround to your goal of transforming computer programs into logic circuits.
I designed a circuit using RTL SystemC library. This circuit works fine and I can simulate it properly. Now I want to deploy it into an FPGA and I'm looking for a way to convert my SystemC code into VHDL or Verilog in order to use it in Xilinx ISE.
Is there a way to do that ? Or do O have to do all the programming again but this time, in VHDL ?
Probably yes, you have to clone the existing design in VHDL - certainly, if you must use ISE. But it might be worth looking at Vivado first.
However, assuming your simulator understands VHDL as well as SystemC, this will be straightforward because you can drop the VHDL into the existing testbenches and verify its correct function, thereby reusing at least half of your proglamming so far.
And presumably you can use the SystemC version as an accurate specification; translating this into VHDL should be quite a straightforward process.
I believe at university I wrote a program for an FPGA which was in a language derived from C. I am aware about languages such as VHDL and verilog. However, what I dont understand is the amount of choice a programmer has regarding which to use? Is it dependent on the FPGA? I am going to be using a Xilinx FPGA.
I am confused because the C-variant language was, unsurprisingly, similar to C- however I know things like VHDL are nothing like C. Therefore if I have a choice I would prefer to programme an FPGA using a C-variant language. The Xilinx website had a million documents and it wasn't overly clear.
It was probably Verilog that you used. It's rather C-like in a lot of it's constructs. I wouldn't say it's "like C", but some syntax is similar.
VHDL is based on ADA, so yes, it's rather different.
There are some small FPGA specific languages around, but VHDL and Verilog are the big two. I think most others have died now.
Remember that writing hardware and writing software are two rather different things. You can't really describe hardware constructs in a language like C (*). The language needs to have special features to allow you to describe exactly what you want. The code needs to be structured in a way that will make the hardware efficient. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can take a piece of software and magically run it on an FPGA just by changing the language/compiler. (This is targeted more at your follow up question to Marty).
Trying to use C to write a circuit description, is like trying to program a computer in English. You could do it, but it's really the wrong language for the job.
(*) Yes, I know there's SystemC (a C++ class library that is meant to make code synthesisable), but I've yet to see anyone get good results from it, and certainly not on FPGAs. Even then the code has to be structured in a similar way as for an HDL.
Clearly HDL are still preferable when programming FPGA (Xilinx, Altera etc : all accept VHDL or Verilog).
However, things are changing (slowly) : there are now excellent so-called behavioral synthesizers that allow you to code in C and generate hardware, expressed for you in VHDL or Verilog at the register-transfer level. They are sometimes refered as HLS : high-level synthesis.
The problem is that they are quite expensive.
Synfony from Synopsys
Cynthesizer from Forte Design Systems
CatapultC from Calypto (was from Mentor)
ImpulseC
At the academic level :
Gaut from Labsticc lab (France)
spark
legup
Hercules
...
Basically, these tools work by extracting a dependency graph from the C program : nodes represents computations and edges represent variables : that is all what you do when you program, in either C or other programming language. Using this internal representation, the compiler can do hardware-relevant transformations like : register allocation (mapping variables to register, or keeping them combinatorial i.e on wires), operations scheduling (deciding if operation execute in same clock cycle) etc, and finally generate HDL automatically.
Hope this helps
JCLL
Usually FPGA vendors will have toolchains that support both Verilog and VHDL - it's up to you to choose which language you'd like. It's generally just these two languages that are supported.
For more C-like languages, a long-shot option is to use the synthesisable subset of SystemC. This is C++ with circuit-friendly stuff added. I'm not sure if the FGPA tools support this though.